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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#151

Post by smoldesu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #107
smoldesu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it did. Your point?

You can seamlessly share standard Bluetooth devices between 5 devices just by pairing it to one like I do with my iPhone, iPad, Watch, MacBook and AppleTV and it automatically switches?

Yeah. Multipoint connection has been a part of the Bluetooth spec since 4.0. Compatible devices will connect to anything available nearby and negotiate audio to whichever device pressed 'play' last. No iCloud mumbo-jumbo required, it was smoother than the Airpods experience when I was using it.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#152

Post by the_third_wave »

askonomm wrote: post #140
the_third_wave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that works if I want it to, e.g by running KDE Connect (which works outside of KDE). Works on Linux, Android, Windows and even on Apple-things in case you need to escape the walled garden...

Sounds like it needs a special program and configuration, which is not needed on Apple devices. Also, KDE Connect needs both devices to be in the same network - which is not needed for Apple devices. My phone can be on 5G, and my Mac can be on wifi. Or they don't have to connected to a network at all.

> Sounds like it needs a special program and configuration, which is not needed on Apple devices

How else would it work across different devices? Apple devices can not connect to e.g. Android devices without a 'special program and configuration' nor can they do so with Linux or Windows or whatever other devices.

> Also, KDE Connect needs both devices to be in the same network - which is not needed for Apple devices

KDE Connect and other similar tools work fine over a VPN which is the preferred solution for such setups. You can choose which VPN you want to use, OpenVPN and Wireguard are two popular choices. Here again that VPN can be used to connect disparate devices - Linux, Windows, Android, Apple-things, whatever. Apple devices only talk to other Apple devices which is far more restrictive.

If you are a happy camper in the walled garden then things are good for you. I prefer the freedom of camping in the wild even if that means I may have to build my own fire and cook my own food since it enables me to go where I please without being held back by that wall and without having to pay the ferryman. To each his own I guess?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#153

Post by Qwertious »

scarface_74 wrote: post #136
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only adults had the agency to make their own decision about how to deal with corporate malfeasance. Like back in the good old days when lynching was an option. /s

Yes because choosing which light bulb to use is analogous to lynching. You realize it was the government that enforced Jim Crow laws, against miscegenation, and “sodomy” (ie non heterosexual sex). Not to mention the “War on Drugs”, civil forfeiture and using eminent domain to take away private property to give to another company. I can much easier choose which corporation to use than the government. And looking at so…

The lightbulbs were changed after sale, consumer choice is irrelevant here.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#154

Post by nani8ot »

scarface_74 wrote: post #106
mschuster91 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet Apple uses Qualcomm chips and manages to update 10 year old phones. For modems, yes, but only because there's even less competition in that area (which is why they bought Intel's mobile modem business, but failed to produce a viable design in all the years since). They've been running their own SoC designs since the iPhone 4 era in 2010.

So now it’s the severe lack of competition that allows Apple to support phones for a decade but stops Android manufacturers?

Apple has an interest in keeping their devices alive, since they can make money of the store and services. Android manufactures want you to throw the phone away and buy a new one.

Since manufacturers didn't demand long support, Qualcomm didn't provide updates for their SoCs. This meant Fairphone couldn't support their phones even if they wanted to, which is why they used am automotive chip in their new phone — which is nearly the same as a phone chip except the 13 years of updates.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#155

Post by fooker »

scarface_74 wrote: post #65
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this idea because it’s incredibly American. If we’re going to go full on free-market, we might as well live up to those principles. There is precedent for this idea, in 1948 the Supreme Court forced the film studios to give up exhibition (theaters) with the paramount decision. This enabled the rise of independent film, and audiences benefited from more choice. If you try to do this legislatively the Apples and…

There are so many flawed analogies here it’s hard to know where to start. How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone? Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this. So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power…

What if by letting this anti-competitive monopolies survive, we are getting future better ‘everyday experiences’ killed in their cribs?

Large companies routinely buy out startups, kill their products, and absorbs the teams.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#156

Post by stainablesteel »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

interesting premise, but i ultimately think this would be worse for the tech by forcing them to play in a limited playing field that doesn't have parallel in other businesses, does it?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#157

Post by ohdannyboy »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #3

Drivers… I don’t know if I could sign on for that for the following reasons: 1. The burden it would put on smaller manufacturers and companies (every little regulation adds up), especially difficult considering the comparative lack of qualified developers 2. Drivers != Quality, Upstreamable Drivers. Making the judgements of Linux maintainers legally binding is a bad idea. Case in point: Apple has Linux drivers intern…

Don't forget TempleOS, lest you be religiously intolerant.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#158

Post by Jtsummers »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #131
robertlagrant wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why split the company? What does that do?

I'm not proposing that we split companies. I proposing that no company that sells hardware be allowed to distribute software, and no company that distributes software be allowed to sell hardware. The Apple split is only a consequence of that. As would be the likely end of locked down game consoles, now that I think of it. What I'm hoping to accomplish with this is: reduced or eliminated vendor lock-in, harmonisation…

This is a rather amazing comment, I'm astonished by the bald-faced lie that you open your first paragraph with:

> I'm not proposing that we split companies.

Also you, only a couple comments up:

> As far as I am aware my proposal would only force Apples to split itself in 2: a hardware company that sells top notch hardware (so top notch in fact that even the hardware interfaces are as clean and slick as an iPad's case), and a software company that sells a top-notch integrated software suite on whatever hardware they chose to support (and no other hardware).

Which is it, split companies or don't split companies? You can't have it both ways. If you aren't proposing that we split companies then you can't propose we split Apple unless you want to be a pedantic twit and point out that that's just one company and not companies.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#159

Post by scarface_74 »

nani8ot wrote: post #154
scarface_74 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now it’s the severe lack of competition that allows Apple to support phones for a decade but stops Android manufacturers?

Apple has an interest in keeping their devices alive, since they can make money of the store and services. Android manufactures want you to throw the phone away and buy a new one. Since manufacturers didn't demand long support, Qualcomm didn't provide updates for their SoCs. This meant Fairphone couldn't support their phones even if they wanted to, which is why they used am automotive chip in their new phone — which…

> Apple has an interest in keeping their devices alive, since they can make money of the store and services

Isn’t that the free market working the way it should without government interference?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#160

Post by hooooopa »

scarface_74 wrote: post #98
webmobdev wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't - it only needs to support open standards.

So does that mean Apple can’t release anything until it goes through a standards body?

Scarface, Apple doesn't love you back.
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