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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#131

Post by loup-vaillant »

robertlagrant wrote: post #109
loup-vaillant wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this idealism and desire to force companies to support everything I'm sorry, where did I proposed we do that? As far as I am aware my proposal would only force Apples to split itself in 2: a hardware company that sells top notch hardware (so top notch in fact that even the hardware interfaces are as clean and slick as an iPad's case), and a software company that sells a top-notch integrated software suite on whatev…

Why split the company? What does that do?

I'm not proposing that we split companies. I proposing that no company that sells hardware be allowed to distribute software, and no company that distributes software be allowed to sell hardware. The Apple split is only a consequence of that. As would be the likely end of locked down game consoles, now that I think of it.

What I'm hoping to accomplish with this is: reduced or eliminated vendor lock-in, harmonisation and simplification of ISAs, the ability to support any hardware in any OS, and maybe even the the ability to actually write new OSes and see some real competition in this space.

Note one important component I haven't mentioned: ISA patents should be rendered null and void. Anyone should be allowed to design, make, and sell an ARM or x86 CPU without asking anyone's permission. Or a GPU clone, or a network card clone, etc. Without that we'll just strengthen monopolies, or maybe allow new ones to arise.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#132

Post by scarface_74 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #128
scarface_74 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now you want the government to pass laws that make consumer experience worse? Maybe that will cause the “Year of Linux on the Desktop” to happen.

Mandating open standards is not the same thing as 'making consumer experience worse'.

So everything that any company designs should go through a committee before it’s introduced and become parts of a standards body?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#133

Post by [deleted] »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

[deleted]

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#134

Post by loup-vaillant »

osigurdson wrote: post #92
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

In practice, what fines would hardware manufacturers be held liable for for any bugs in their specifications? How do we conclude that, yes, a hardware manufacturer hasn’t lived up to the regulation? Perhaps the operating system is “using it wrong”. Do governments have entire departments running tests on these devices?

That's in part why I didn't propose that we force manufacturers to specify their products, but simply make sure that if they don't, nobody would want to use their product. Who would buy a CPU they don't know the ISA of?

Forcing the separation between software and hardware companies may be more stringent, but it may be simpler to enforce, and likely even more effective at making sure the hardware is humanely specified than direct regulation would be.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#135

Post by diego_sandoval »

mnd999 wrote: post #12
doikor wrote: post #9

Why should EU give preference to Linux over any other operating system? A much more EU "style" directive would be to force the companies to release enough of the specs so anyone can write the driver if they want to.

A much more EU style directive would be to force all operating systems to use the Linux 5.1 kernel.

A much more EU style directive would be to force all operating systems to ask on every boot: Do you consent for this OS to store files on your hard drive?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#136

Post by scarface_74 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #127
scarface_74 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only adults had agency to make their own decisions about lightbulbs without depending on the government…

If only adults had the agency to make their own decision about how to deal with corporate malfeasance. Like back in the good old days when lynching was an option. /s

Yes because choosing which light bulb to use is analogous to lynching.

You realize it was the government that enforced Jim Crow laws, against miscegenation, and “sodomy” (ie non heterosexual sex).

Not to mention the “War on Drugs”, civil forfeiture and using eminent domain to take away private property to give to another company.

I can much easier choose which corporation to use than the government.

And looking at some of the ideas on this submission, I damn sure don’t want some internet geeks deciding what products I can use and how they are made.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#137

Post by askonomm »

michaelmrose wrote: post #72
phumberdroz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never typed a 2FA code from the phone to the computer? Just copying them on the iPhone and pasting them on the mac is super convenient.

On android you can view your sms messages at messages.google.com allowing you to easily copy and paste it

Yeah, can also view email on both phone and computer since forever ago - this is not even remotely similar to the shared clipboard of an iPhone and Mac, where you don't need to open any links or programs, install anything, configure anything - you just copy on phone/computer and then instantly are able to paste on phone/computer.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#138

Post by amelius »

doikor wrote: post #9

Why should EU give preference to Linux over any other operating system? A much more EU "style" directive would be to force the companies to release enough of the specs so anyone can write the driver if they want to.

That's also fine.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#139

Post by askonomm »

ta8903 wrote: post #21
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

KDEConnect lets you sync your phone keyboard, even with Windows. And Apple could let you sync your clipboard to non-iOS devices too, they just block arbitrary features unless you buy into their entire ecosystem.

I did mention without installing a program, and without any configuration.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#140

Post by askonomm »

the_third_wave wrote: post #44
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

Yes, that works if I want it to, e.g by running KDE Connect (which works outside of KDE). Works on Linux, Android, Windows and even on Apple-things in case you need to escape the walled garden...

Sounds like it needs a special program and configuration, which is not needed on Apple devices. Also, KDE Connect needs both devices to be in the same network - which is not needed for Apple devices. My phone can be on 5G, and my Mac can be on wifi. Or they don't have to connected to a network at all.
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