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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#21

Post by ta8903 »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

KDEConnect lets you sync your phone keyboard, even with Windows. And Apple could let you sync your clipboard to non-iOS devices too, they just block arbitrary features unless you buy into their entire ecosystem.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#23

Post by vesrah »

oynqr wrote: post #20
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

With those preconditons, it doesn't even work on Apple devices.

What do you mean? This is what Universal Clipboard does.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#24

Post by tincholio »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

Not only copy/paste, but have notifications shared both ways, use your computer as a phone laptop, use the phone as a trackpad/mouse, and much more. It just works.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#25

Post by lostlogin »

adrian_b wrote: post #16
msm_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Linked post is a misconception of how EU actually work. They will never "hardcode" something like "linux drivers" into the law. But, in theory, they could write a law like "If you want to sell your device in the EU, you must publish a freely available technical spec with enough level of detail to write a functioning driver".

This would not even be something completely new. It would just revert the market for computer peripherals and interfaces to how it was before the launch of MS Windows 95. In the MS-DOS days everything was provided with detailed technical information, so you could write your own device drivers, for any operating system. This ended in 1995, after which most hardware vendors stopped providing documentation and replaced…

The days spent trying to get drivers to work and deal with their bugs and conflicts were seriously grim.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#26

Post by [deleted] »

tincholio wrote: post #24
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

Not only copy/paste, but have notifications shared both ways, use your computer as a phone laptop, use the phone as a trackpad/mouse, and much more. It just works.

[deleted]

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#27

Post by noobermin »

I've swung over the last few years from thinking it's manufacturers' fault to realising that most of the fault here lies with the linux project itself. They're the ones who have normalised constant churn and thus needing to keep drivers for hardware, sometimes many years old, up to date year after year or even month after month. After seeing the churn mentality affect everything mainly spreading from web dev circles to the rest of the ecosystem, it's hard not to identify that trend as having been the norm in the kernel for decades.

I've only come to realise that blaming manufacturers for failing to keep up to date with a constantly moving target was totally unfair.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#28

Post by TheRealPomax »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

rather than "disallow vertical integration", start with "disallow lock-out". By all means, vertically integrate as much as you want but it should not be illegal for someone to take your hardware and use it for another purpose that you have no say in, or write and run software using your hardware without you having a say in that.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#29

Post by monocasa »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

Why would this be an issue? Under the proposed model, the vendor for phone software can be the same vendor for desktop software.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#30

Post by mschuster91 »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

> Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world.

Why? The hardware people at companies like NVIDIA or Apple already have to write detailed documentation for their stuff anyway so that the software people can do their side.

Assuming they do a good enough job at writing documentation and testing their hardware, it should not be a problem for Linux developers to write appropriate drivers. Hell there are a very few select people able to write high quality drivers even with zero documentation (see Asahi Linux).

The only ones in trouble would be the vendors of crap SoCs who ship extremely buggy hardware and make up for the lack of QA in software quirks instead.

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