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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#61

Post by vegetablepotpie »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

I like this idea because it’s incredibly American. If we’re going to go full on free-market, we might as well live up to those principles.

There is precedent for this idea, in 1948 the Supreme Court forced the film studios to give up exhibition (theaters) with the paramount decision. This enabled the rise of independent film, and audiences benefited from more choice.

If you try to do this legislatively the Apples and the NVidias of the world will hire an army of lobbyists and storm Capitol Hill. But it might be to their benefit. After the breakup of Standard Oil, John Rockefeller became richer because competition forced out the less efficient portions of his old business from the market.

It’s true that it could temporarily degrade the user experience of some people, but that’s a small price to pay. People who give up liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#62

Post by scarface_74 »

alphager wrote: post #52
vesrah wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? This is what Universal Clipboard does.

Pretty sure you had to configure both devices for it to work.

No, just sign into both of them with your iCloud account

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#63

Post by vanviegen »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #34
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

> Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? I am guessing that AirDrop, Sidecar, etc have absolutely nothing to do with hardware-software integration, and have ≥ Layer 3 implementations. KDE Connect and Microsoft My Phone are competitors.

Exactly. Apple could have made this work across other platforms (Windows, Android, Linux), but chose not to. KDE Connect, for example, runs on quite a few platform, including all popular ones. https://kdeconnect.kde.org/download.html

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#64

Post by the_biot »

> being forced to make drivers that work equally in linux, windows and even macOS

That is almost a recipe for drivers built on hardware abstraction layers (HALs), so vendors can use literally the same code on every platform. That, of course, results in a bunch of unnecessary HAL code being added -- unnecessary from the OS point of view, which already has perfectly good hooks for all the stuff a driver needs. That's the reason Linux does not accept HALs into the mainline kernel.

What often happens on Linux is vendors will then move their HAL and drivers into userspace, interfacing with the kernel via a shim instead. This has the side effect of no longer needing to open-source the driver code at all, since it's not linked into the kernel. Look how that works out!

In case of Android, it was literally Google that did the HAL/shim work, giving vendors a pass on open sourcing or mainlining their drivers.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#65

Post by scarface_74 »

vegetablepotpie wrote: post #61
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

I like this idea because it’s incredibly American. If we’re going to go full on free-market, we might as well live up to those principles. There is precedent for this idea, in 1948 the Supreme Court forced the film studios to give up exhibition (theaters) with the paramount decision. This enabled the rise of independent film, and audiences benefited from more choice. If you try to do this legislatively the Apples and…

There are so many flawed analogies here it’s hard to know where to start. How will it make my everyday experience better as an Apple customer without the integration of software and hardware between my Mac, iPads Watch, Airpods and phone?

Windows laptops are worse in every vector than MacBooks. No consumer is asking for this.

So you want to degrade the user experience for “freedom” by giving the government more power???

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#66

Post by scarface_74 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #30
askonomm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

> Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Why? The hardware people at companies like NVIDIA or Apple already have to write detailed documentation for their stuff anyway so that the software people can do their side. Assuming they do a good enough job at writing documentation and testing their hardware, it should no…

Every year, Apple releases new hardware and software in tandem. How long does it take Android manufacturers and Windows manufacturers to take advantage of the latest OS features?

How are those Android updates working out compared to iPhones?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#67

Post by michaelmrose »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

What is KDE Connect? Which incidentally runs equally well on other desktops and even windows.

https://userbase.kde.org/KDEConnect

Also gsconnect can provide integration with gnome.

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1319/gsconnect/

KDE Connect is a project that enables all your devices to communicate with each other. Here are a few things KDE Connect can do:

    Receive your phone notifications on your desktop computer and reply to messages

    Control music playing on your desktop from your phone

    Use your phone as a remote control for your desktop

    Run predefined commands on your PC from connected devices. See the list of example commands for more details.


    Check your phones battery level from the desktop

    Ring your phone to help finding it

    Share files and links between devices

    Browse your phone from the desktop

    Control the desktop's volume from the phone
Also you can read and reply to messages on your Android phone by navigating to messages.google.com without installing anything

Firefox and I presume chrome let you push tabs from one machine to the other or with forefox simply pull up a list of tabs currently open on the other device.

Unified remote also gives you a great remote for our multimedia pc.

Basically every email service abd chat app has good integration between desktop and phone.

Mpd and mafa lets me easily listen to my music

Calibre and calibre companion let's me easily sync my books

I doubt one person making these things would make them better

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#68

Post by scarface_74 »

vanviegen wrote: post #63
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? I am guessing that AirDrop, Sidecar, etc have absolutely nothing to do with hardware-software integration, and have ≥ Layer 3 implementations. KDE Connect and Microsoft My Phone are competitors.

Exactly. Apple could have made this work across other platforms (Windows, Android, Linux), but chose not to. KDE Connect, for example, runs on quite a few platform, including all popular ones. https://kdeconnect.kde.org/download.html

Why should Apple be forced to write software for competing platforms?

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#69

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

scarface_74 wrote: post #41
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

I know no other way to say this. But this idea is just dumb. The entire value proposition would be worse for everyone. Software and hardware integration is what makes a product better.

> Software and hardware integration is what makes a product better.

... Except for the times when it makes things worse.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#70

Post by mschuster91 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #66
mschuster91 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Why? The hardware people at companies like NVIDIA or Apple already have to write detailed documentation for their stuff anyway so that the software people can do their side. Assuming they do a good enough job at writing documentation and testing their hardware, it should no…

Every year, Apple releases new hardware and software in tandem. How long does it take Android manufacturers and Windows manufacturers to take advantage of the latest OS features? How are those Android updates working out compared to iPhones?

> How long does it take Android manufacturers

Way way too long, but to be fair a huge part of the issue are carriers and their insistence to pack the phones full of bloatware that needs to be tested against each update.

> and Windows manufacturers to take advantage of the latest OS features?

Windows device manufacturers tend to do what Microsoft demands of them.

> How are those Android updates working out compared to iPhones?

Samsung is fairly decent, although I'd be happier if they'd ... consolidate their lineup a bit and instead offer longer availability for spare parts.

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