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Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#131

Post by nathanaldensr »

lionkor wrote: post #87
nine_k wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it follows the pattern of nationality names, and more general ethnic or geographical groups, like "Japanese", or "American", or "African"'. Please note that not all Africans have black skin (look at Egypt or Libya), and not all people with black skin are Africans (see India, Micronesia, Philippines, etc). So, to my mind, "Black" with a capital B is not people with black skin. They are by far not all black-s…

What does it mean to be 'African', then? Or 'Asian'? Its the same kind of racist shit, literally separating people based on some random property. I know the US is the world leader in backwards decisions that ignore history (while virtue signalling harder than ever before), and then being as racist as possible ("but in a good way!!!!"), but this is just sad now. If I speak to someone, I don't ask "Are you black? Are y…

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Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#132

Post by cutemonster »

padjo wrote: post #121
richbell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, changing language that explicitly says “white good”, “black bad” can’t really hurt. It takes very little effort and “allow list” is actually clearer anyway. That isn't what they say at all . The only way that argument holds any water is with profound ignorance. It's the same line of thinking as saying that "red team" is offensive because "red" used to be a derogatory term for native Americans. https://news.yc…

So why do we exclusively use blacklist to refer to bad things we want to exclude?

It's originally from England, hundreds of years ago, not US history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#133

Post by gadders »

SSLy wrote: post #111
sleiben wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% with you here! Great arguments edit: It also reminds me of men playing feminist and stepping (aggressively) up to protect women’s rights. I heard from my female colleagues that they hate this since it implies that women are like children and aren’t able or mature enough to speak up for themselves. So the «strong men» need now to protect them…

I don't live in USA, but this very week one of such staunch feminists was ousted as a groomer and violent partner. https://www.wirtualnemedia.pl/artykul/gargamel-jakub-chuptys...

Many such cases.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#134

Post by thelastparadise »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #84
sleiben wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The «master» to «main» change was totally unnecessary and B.S. imho. Even 15 years ago, when I started my professional journey (in Germany) there were a lot of people who were gay, trans and so on in the dev community … and nobody cared about it. We were all passioned about technologies and respected each other based on commitment/engagement/skill level. At the end most of the true full blood developers were always «…

It’s the enshittification of everything and the pervasiveness of “pop culture”. Every HR person needs to touch something to feel useful and “changing something”.

Well good riddance them in this great tech recession.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#135

Post by willcipriano »

bangkoksbest wrote: post #109
willcipriano wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it requires evidence.

The standard for civil cases is literally "a preponderance of the evidence"...

If both civil and criminal cases determine truth why does one end up with different results?

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#136

Post by dangus »

OscarDC wrote: post #123
dangus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I agree with the most part of what you wrote and I don't want to turn this even more into an unconstructive flame war than it already is. I just wanted to reply on the following point: > I knew HN had a bunch of conservative and libertarian tech bros but…holy shit. This whole thread is unhinged. Many people on that thread seem to not be american so thinking of them through a US political lens may not be pertinent - t…

I’m speaking purely from the context of the US, and I wouldn’t want to shove our terminology down anyone else’s throat. That said, the US does drive a lot of software culture since it’s the industry epicenter, so I guess it’s unavoidable at some point.

Maybe I could have used less politically-charged language, but in my eyes it was necessary to surface the connection. I think that in the US, a very specific political group rallies around opposition to social justice, and that group has a tendency to try and hide their underlying motivations (e.g., using dogwhistling).

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#137

Post by thelastparadise »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #24
racked wrote: post #13

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The Guardians style guide says let the writer decide: https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-b "There is debate about the capitalisation of black, with some using it as a physical descriptor, others to describe a specific cultural group, therefore while generally lower case, if a subject, writer or editor of a story prefers to use Black then that choice should be respected."

> The Guardians style guide says let the writer decide

The Guardian is far from a politically-unbiased source.

Plus, this is an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#138

Post by dangus »

surgical_fire wrote: post #129
dangus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> I’m honestly a bit shocked at the reactionary nature of this entire thread. I knew HN had a bunch of conservative and libertarian tech bros but…holy shit. This whole thread is unhinged. I am not from the US. I am not white. I am typically in the left (to what's considered left in the countries I lived in). And I really dislike all the political correctness that seeped into tech, and generally comes from the US. All…

To be clear, I’m only talking about the US. I don’t care what other countries do with their terminology. If they’re using “master/slave,” they’re already borrowing our terminology that came from an American. What’s so hard about borrowing again?

What I do know is that my Black team member is offended by master/slave terminology. Maybe their grandparents had a grandparent who was enslaved, and they don’t want to be reminded of that past every day at work. Their parents grew up in segregated schools with segregated bathrooms and water fountains. That experience is very much in living memory. It wasn’t that long ago in the grand scheme of things.

That’s more than enough for me to not use that terminology anymore.

This isn’t about political correctness, it’s about basic respect and empathy for other people.

I would argue that the US has unique racial tensions and that racism is deeply embedded within its system. Maybe if you live in a homogeneous culture racism doesn’t become so much of a problem. Not the case in the US.

That’s probably why in your perspective Americans can’t stop bringing up racism, because it’s such a pervasive issue in our society. There aren’t many other countries that have experienced anywhere near as much demographic change via immigration as the US.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#139

Post by zajio1am »

nine_k wrote: post #25
racked wrote: post #13

[flagged]

I suppose it follows the pattern of nationality names, and more general ethnic or geographical groups, like "Japanese", or "American", or "African"'. Please note that not all Africans have black skin (look at Egypt or Libya), and not all people with black skin are Africans (see India, Micronesia, Philippines, etc). So, to my mind, "Black" with a capital B is not people with black skin. They are by far not all black-s…

Well, it would be consistent to use 'Black' for black Americans, and 'black' for black people in general, and likewise 'White' for white Americans, and 'white' for white people in general.

But then articles should use, based on context, both 'Black' and 'White', or both 'black' and 'white', while rarely it makes sense to use 'Black' and 'white' in one article, but that is the pattern used by newspapers.

Re: Tesla sued for severe harassment of black workers at California plant

#140

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

dangus wrote: post #116
about3fitty wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to ask: do you have a position on the following? - an allowlist/blocklist to replace whitelist/blacklist -primary/replica to replace master/slave Also, how old are you? I’m not young but not old and I don’t associate racial overtones to the latter terms

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I'm with you all the way up to:

> white people should have guilt in America.

Why should non-racist white people feel guilty over the actions of other people simply because they have the same skin colour?

I do think we need to be aware of and oppose racism, but I cannot understand this attitude. It actually seems a bit... racist, even if well intentioned.

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