An article concerned about men? The world is certainly changing.
‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
151–160 of 281 posts
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bad outcome in what way? Even if you’re a so-called bad parent, they’ll still have a similar life expectancy, and a similar chance of creating grandchildren. Maybe they won’t be an A student when they reach school but does it actually matter? There’s kids who literally survived the Holocaust in Nazi Germany and lived very successful lives after. That said there is a natural instinct to be a decent parent. You don’t r…
Success as a parent is much more than just "my child is alive and getting older" Are they becoming a happy person? good, moral person? Do they contribute to society or are they a drain on society? Do you, the parent, have to bail them out of jail every other weekend? Don't neglect your kids, people. Please.
A child's peer group has more influence over those questions than parents do. It's no excuse to neglect your children, but society places far more blame on parents than is warranted IMO.
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
i think the smart thing to do is to have kids when you are 20 and then enjoy life when you are 40. at that time you are much better off financially (unless you live in a country where you have to pay for your kids education maybe) which gives you a lot more freedom to explore your interests.
That's an opinion an algorithm could come up with based on raw data, but in real life you will not enjoy life the same way when you are 20, especially given at what life stage other 40s are at in most societies.
well that's the thing.
i had kids late. but i wasn't really any more ready to have kids in my 30s than i was in my 20s. and on the other hand i don't feel any different as far as life stage goes in my 40s than in my 20s. yes, i am and feel more mature, but my interests haven't changed and i am just as willing to explore the world now as i was then.
but now i have the financial means to do that, which i didn't have then.
and i am from a country where parenting is financially supported by the government, so there is absolutely no need to have saved money to be a parent.
in countries where this isn't the case the situation is perhaps a bit different, but then, lacking financial resources doesn't stop people from having kids, and even those will be better off in their 40s and still be able to explore their interests more than they were in their 20s.
the only thing that gets in the way is the expectation from others, to have a house, to have a career, to stop being impulsive when you are older, lack of support from their own parents, etc.
i see it happening in china. people get married and have children much earlier. most have very supportive grandparents (because the grandparents want kids) and when these couples are in their 40s and 50s they are still full of energy and are able to enjoy their life.
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this an American thing? I can't imagine that happening in Europe, but maybe I'm just a bit naive.
Yeah we're kinda over the traditional family thing here in Europe. I would bet two fathers taking their son to the playground would raise some eyebrows in the US too, depending on the area of course. Whereas here it wouldn't.
I think it depends on where you are in Europe. I had far more reaction doing childcare in Poland than I did in the US and Canada. Almost completely positive, though. "Your wife is so lucky, a Polish man would never change a diaper".
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#155I'm surprised there's so many men that genuinely want kids. I've never had that desire, I know it's more commonplace in women. Most of my friends who have them were basically doing it for the wife even though they loved their kids when they appeared on the scene. But it was not something they would have chosen. But anyway good for them. I'm glad I never had any and I have no regrets.
> I know it's more commonplace in women.
There are plenty of women who are perfectly happy without kids, too.
And that doesn't mean those men and women don't like kids or don't have kids in their lives. It's nice to get some kid time. And it's nice to go home later and not have to deal with them. Or the inevitable ex spouses.
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mixed feelings. On the one side, it feels like people stay "immature" for longer; instead of starting their careers in their teens and a family not long after, people stay in school until their mid-twenties. Then, what does it take to start a family? Stability. People need a stable income, a living wage, and a place they can call home. If people complain about birth rates, pay people a living wage when they enter the…
Not really. Starting a family is a leap in the dark. Always was, always will be. The only difference today is that people (may) have a lower risk tolerance, and a tendency to plan everything in advance. I had my first son with no house and no income. I just did the best I could, and things fell into place as I needed them.
I'm not trying to diminish your hardships, but the fact that everything worked out for you in the end is either the result of luck or (mild) privilege. Imagine that everytime somebody helped you out, that didn't happen?. how much worse off would you be right now? There are loads of people who are in your situation who don't have any family, or have a mental or physical handicap, or who happened to get twins instead of just one kid?
The start of a family will always be a leap of faith, but difference is if you start on solid ground or not.
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
i think the smart thing to do is to have kids when you are 20 and then enjoy life when you are 40. at that time you are much better off financially (unless you live in a country where you have to pay for your kids education maybe) which gives you a lot more freedom to explore your interests.
There's trades offs either way. Personally, I would rather have had the experiences I had in my 20's. Anything you can do in your 40's, you can do in your 50's or 60's. Some of the crazy (good and bad) you can experience in your 20's you don't get a chance to experience again. But, it's a trade off still.
i suppose that comes down to specific activities. pretty much everything that i did in my 20s i am still able to and am doing now.
on the other hand there are some activities that i wanted to do in my 20s but i could not because i could not afford them, and now i can't do them because i have kids.
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
i think the smart thing to do is to have kids when you are 20 and then enjoy life when you are 40. at that time you are much better off financially (unless you live in a country where you have to pay for your kids education maybe) which gives you a lot more freedom to explore your interests.
Looking back I don't think I would have been ready at twenty. Also I couldn't afford a house at the time but could at thirty.
the expectation to need to be able to afford a house before you can have kids is something that is very wrong with society today. (but at the same time the difficulties today to afford a house is also something that has gone wrong. and i suppose the expectation to have a house made more sense when it was still possible to afford one. either way something here needs to change.)
Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#159Tough topic. I have some personal experience with it. The thing I struggle most with is the fact that I am often looked down upon (either consciously or subconsciously) by those that have "achieved" parenthood. Having children is an odd status symbol in Western society.
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Re: ‘I just assumed it would happen’: the unspoken grief of childless men
#160I wanted to get married and have kids. Being rather effeminate, I don't attract the women who do want to have kids. I was about 40 when I finally realized that if she said she didn't want kids, she really meant it and it was not negotiable. I swore a vow: no more childless relationships. Being in no relationship is far better than being in the wrong relationship. When I tried to adopt, Florida's child welfare agency…
thats sad!