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Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

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Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#271

Post by ModernMech »

hirvi74 wrote: post #250
ModernMech wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you’re doing something at least. I’m trying to get my adhd diagnosed after my mom refused when I was a kid, and I’ve been self medicating my whole life with caffeine and weed, unaware I even could have this disorder. I thought it was just being a hyperactive kid — that wasn’t me. But then I learned about all the symptoms as an adult. Yup, I’ve got ‘em all, like friggen ash catchem. I feel like a lot of adults fa…

> I’ve been self medicating my whole life with caffeine and weed As someone that has been treated for over a decade, I swear this combo is perhaps better than the treatments. Not initially, for there is a "honeymoon" period of course, but definitely over the longer term. I'd go back to the combo if it weren't for the legal and social issues that come with it. Do not let me discourage you by any means. I am just some…

Thanks for validating that this is indeed a combo that works for people suffering from this. Weed was the only way I got through my doctorate, I would have never been able to write my dissertation sober.

I’ve quit weed more or less (became a daily thing, now just occasionally). Today what I’m doing is exercising (a lot) and this is really helping me. But I do go back to the weed pen every now and then, and there’s nothing that makes me feel more focused and capable than that first hit (is that how normal people feel all the time?).

But the problem I have with it is it plugs me up and I also am driven to eat like shit. So I’ve gotta figure out the right balance still.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#272

Post by barrysteve »

pxc wrote: post #254
NegativeLatency wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absurd to claim that you're not trying to pass as a medical service when you're offering coaching for a neurological condition. You can argue medical vs healthcare or whatever semantics you want but if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.

It's a totally coherent position to hold that the name 'ADHD' gestures at a real thing, but also reject the medicalization of that thing (or, more weakly, that that thing can/should be addressed solely medically). The predominance of the 'medical lens' in addressing cognitive differences is reflected in the language available for naming and describing those things, whether you actually agree with it or not. The notio…

You honestly could have fooled me. The amount of preaching, unfalsifiable theories and casuistry that goes on in the ADHD space is beyond the pale.

Executive function theory, delayed rewards theory, everywhere you go, when the axioms of the presenter changes, so does the "root cause" of ADHD change.

Granted it's common for these problems to pop up every where in online media the past five years or so...

... but when Law and Order SVU episodes from the 90s have more empirical cause-and-effect rigor to their detective stories than half the opinions-masquerading-as-theories in the ADHD space, then I find his skepticism understandable and I empathize with it.

I wish it were not true. I deeply, deeply crave a scientist in a lab coat to point to a chain of chemicals that describe the problem in concrete unarguable terms. The smoking gun, if you will. Something Feynman and Einstein (so to speak) could analyze, criticize and come up sucessfully defeated in attempting to prove the theory wrong, admitting the shown evidence and resulting theory is true.

We see instead research universities pouring money and big minds into Diffusion Tensor Imaging, doing hundreds/thousands of high resolution scans on kids' brains who obviously have ADHD and not only being unable to find the root cause of the problem, but they cannot even show a difference in the data that relates to ADHD at all.

Wtf is going on...

It is probably deeply impolite for me to say this, because I'm directly challenging your livelihood and it's 'more good' if I just ignore your website and move on.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#273

Post by hinkley »

mollybee wrote: post #221
hinkley wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a pair of BFFs who both have ADD. Watching them try to have one conversation is quite eye opening. And a bit exhausting. I'm thinking back to every conversation I've ever had with a polymath or a person with ADD and asking myself, "man, is this what everyone else experienced listening to me?" No wonder the conversations always devolved to 1:1. People with ADD understand why they shouldn't distract others, but…

I'm curious, why are you so concerned about how ADHD affects people who don't have ADHD? What makes you think we "shouldn't distract others?" Have you considered that the problem might be failure to accommodate ADHD brains rather than people with ADHD not complying with arbitrary neurotypical standards?

Did you read the message I replied to? It was the experience of someone with ADHD reading the article.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#274

Post by pppppppppp123 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #85
rendx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that theory says that typically memories of traumatic events are repressed and show up only in form of symptoms like ADHD. Your "claim" that you had a non-traumatic childhood (and your parents did neither?) does not invalidate that theory. It's interesting how I was downvoted. I am just curious, I am not saying one or the other is "true". I have no idea, I am not a professional. However, I do think it is a rele…

The way the theory is phrased makes it unscientific and the HN community in general tends to be especially critical when that occurs. I also want to add that the scientific-ness of it or not doesn't invalidate it as an explanatory device in your personal journey - they are on orthogonal axes.

The irony is that ADHD is extremely unscientific. If you go down the rabbit-hole, you will find out that the diagnosis criteria is entirely arbitrary, and the neurodevelopmental claim is unproven. No conclusive brain imaging and no gene studies either. Taking addictive meds which you develop a dependency for your entire life with health risks, premised on a theory of brain dysfunction that is not proven. Also, a medicine that 1/4 college students find benefit from. The symptoms are real, but the cause is still unknown, and the medicine works for everyone. No long-term safety studies either.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#275

Post by christalwang »

tapland wrote: post #262
sph wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I have ADHD and it's evening now, so I got no meds in me. With my hamster brain, I saw a wall of text at the top of this page, clicked the link, a wall of text on the landing page, even the title is too much information to digest. I literally have no idea what this thing does, and I won't allocate any effort in diving deeper. Focus is precious, I don't give that away easily. I don't want to make assumptions,…

What I read was that the founder and author of this thread got diagnosed a year ago and instantly got to building the service. I also got diagnosed as an adult but though things started making sense when I went through the evaluations it has taken years of conscious thought to unravel my difficulties and even start to see what I should do and avoid doing because of it. Personally I just can't find myself trusting a s…

Thanks for weighing in—It is true that I was diagnosed last year, but that is most definitely not when my journey started. I grew up in an asian family as a "3rd culture kid", I'm also queer and came out in 2017, so things like getting diagnosed, etc., is not a simple process when you layer in cultural & family dynamics. We're working hard to get plugged in as part of the support system with professionals, and already are recommended by several psychiatrists and therapists. However, as discussed in earlier threads, we are not "treatment" and do not provide medical advice. If you ever change your mind and want a free consultation, don't hesitate to e-mail us! And agree on great psychologists being able to do that is rare!

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#276

Post by pxc »

barrysteve wrote: post #272
pxc wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a totally coherent position to hold that the name 'ADHD' gestures at a real thing, but also reject the medicalization of that thing (or, more weakly, that that thing can/should be addressed solely medically). The predominance of the 'medical lens' in addressing cognitive differences is reflected in the language available for naming and describing those things, whether you actually agree with it or not. The notio…

You honestly could have fooled me. The amount of preaching, unfalsifiable theories and casuistry that goes on in the ADHD space is beyond the pale. Executive function theory, delayed rewards theory, everywhere you go, when the axioms of the presenter changes, so does the "root cause" of ADHD change. Granted it's common for these problems to pop up every where in online media the past five years or so... ... but when…

To be clear, I don't work at Shimmer or any place centered on treating ADHD or helping people with it. Idek if Shimmer's services are useful.

I just want to push back on the notion that 'this is a neurological disorder' is the only acceptable or useful way to think about ADHD.

To your point, I think it's clear that the world hasn't really figured out what ADHD is yet. That is, we haven't figured out the best way to think or talk about it, let alone treat it.

That's why I think it's important to hold onto that label with a light touch, and an understanding that our conception of the problem is likely to change a lot in the future. The 'real core' that we do know about ADHD is in the common struggles of people, situated as they are, who have ADHD-like symptoms and experiences. Those are worth addressing with anything that helps, and if you have those struggles yourself you know you can't wait for an ideal 'final answer' from scientific or other authorities to try to improve your life.

All that said it's way easier to be comfortable with non-commercial, community-oriented efforts of people sharing their experiences and trying to figure out what works for them in an ad-hoc way. Companies offering solutions to people, especially people who fear that their ADHD-ish struggles might cost them their livelihood or are destabilizing their lives, do have to prove themselves trustworthy and effective somehow and there's a lot of room for scammy bullshit with something like this. I don't disagree with the skepticism so much as the scientism and medicalism.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#277

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #162
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok (1) is paper thin. Self-reported can be anything. (2) makes me laugh because these things don’t take 2 fucking months. An initial protocol for a study, maybe. In reality such studies take years and years - I’ve done it with surgical skill development training program validation. My advice would be to conform your thing to an existing body of knowledge and build your arguments on that - that’s what we did. Congrats…

What do you mean by "these things" in the sentence "these things don't take 2 fucking months"? Getting their new pilot for effectiveness measurement from it's current state to launch? Where do you think it's at now, and why do you think two months isn't long enough to get to launch?

If a tobacco company tells you they've done internal research are you going to believe it? When anyone coming from a commercial background tries to do independent research with a reputable university or researchers it's going to take a lot more than 2 months to get them to do it. And if they're truly independent they're not going to be interested in just cooking the numbers to simply match your short-term product launch ambitions. The ultimate goal with such efforts is to pursue consensus - meaning multiple pieces of independent research with varying discussions and outcomes.

These are my experiences: With our product I found several experienced and reputable professors who assisted us. They did not take any money and they did not put their fingers on the scale. Their researchers were paid out of their budgets and we had to stay away from it as much as possible. The research took well over 2 years, and many of the results did not conclusively verify that our product really works. Instead they were broadly insightful on what could be modified our changed about it. Hence the "these things don't take 2 fucking months".

What I really mean is that I think they're full of shit. And they're laying it on pretty thick instead of being honest and humble about what they've got - which is an early stage monthly subscription coaching service/community. In response to questions they're laying it even thicker with even more happy-go-lucky obtuse language.

I find this repulsive because I have ADHD. This presentation can really take advantage of how the condition works. Feelings of community are something we have a tendency to be enamored by in the short-term. On the other hand I got my help in no small part thanks to participating in conversations in places like this one here, so there might be folks with this problem reading these comments. And this is very important - there are psychiatrists, experienced therapists and qualified IRL coaching that you should go to get proper help. It's worth the money. This help is not going to come from (young) people who say they have all the answers along with a business model just 3 months after they've gotten their own diagnosis.

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#278

Post by [deleted] »

mollybee wrote: post #210
jameslk wrote: post #199

I'm curious to hear more about the privacy and security practices of a service where you divulge your deepest darkest secret: that you're living with a disorder. Something that unscrupulous potential employers or others with nefarious intentions (e.g. bullies on the internet) can abuse. The privacy policy on the website doesn't exactly fill me with "this is HIPAA levels of privacy" feelings. It seems rather generic w…

If you're curious, might I suggest directing these questions toward the email address referenced multiple times in the link you posted? In case you've forgotten, it's privacy@shimmer.care. I'm sure they'll be able to answer your questions better than the comments section. Keep in mind that not everyone considers their ADHD their "deepest darkest secret." Some of us are open and unashamed of being neurodivergent. Obvi…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#279

Post by rendx »

sanderjd wrote: post #196
rendx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that theory says that typically memories of traumatic events are repressed and show up only in form of symptoms like ADHD. Your "claim" that you had a non-traumatic childhood (and your parents did neither?) does not invalidate that theory. It's interesting how I was downvoted. I am just curious, I am not saying one or the other is "true". I have no idea, I am not a professional. However, I do think it is a rele…

I didn't downvote you but I honestly just hate this kind of thing. "You didn't have childhood trauma you say? Sounds just like something somebody who did have childhood trauma would say!" Like what the hell are you supposed to say to something like this?

It's always interesting to do some introspection. Why do you take offense from something that is simply not true for you?

"There is a theory that claims everyone who has ADHD has pink hair." - "I don't have pink hair." - "Are you sure? Did you check?" - "Yes, I did."

Actually, this kind of thing is exactly what you learn in trauma therapy to watch out for, take note, and investigate. You call it "triggers".

Nowhere in this thread did I claim that the theory is proven. Just that it is out there, has a big following, and is also actively being investigated by the research community. I do think that it is worth discussing, which I tried to do in ways that should not offend anyone.

Also, very likely what we have here is a misunderstanding of what we agree to call "trauma", or "adverse childhood experiences" (and more importantly, what they have meant for a little child that went through them).

Re: Show HN: Shimmer – ADHD coaching for adults, now on web

#280

Post by lazyasciiart »

mollybee wrote: post #233
lazyasciiart wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they do imply different root causes. PTSD requires a root cause of experiencing trauma. ADHD is not PTSD because it is not caused by trauma, and therefore therapy to deal with childhood trauma will not benefit people with ADHD. It is, however, very true that they can look the same. I work with kids who have been through trauma and it is only on the order of years since people started recognizing that in these ki…

Therapy to deal with childhood trauma can absolutely benefit people with ADHD. Having ADHD doesn't magically make you immune to PTSD or other impacts of childhood trauma. It just means you also have ADHD. I know this because I have both ADHD and C-PTSD, and the ADHD was very, very present by the time the trauma started. Trauma symptoms exacerbate ADHD symptoms, and often vice versa. Both need to be treated. If kids'…

No, I definitely didn't mean to say a kid with ADHD can't also have C-PTSD.

What I meant was that a kid who doesn't have any background of trauma can still have ADHD, but does not have PTSD, and no amount of therapy for childhood trauma will help their ADHD symptoms. That's my point - that there is overlap in symptoms but they are still different problems, that require different treatment.

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