Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
201–210 of 351 posts
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#202I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…
lets be brutally honest with ourselves. 99% of all papers mean nothing. They add nothing to the collective knowledge of humanity. In my field of robotics there are SOOO many papers that are basically taking three or four established algorithms/machine learning models, and applying them to off-the-shelf hardware. The kind of thing any person educated in the field could almost guess the results exactly. Hundreds of suc…
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#203Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#204In the PL field, conferences have started to allow authors to submit packaged artifacts (typically, source code, input data, training data, etc) that are evaluated separately, typically post-review. The artifacts are evaluated by a separate committee, usually graduate students. As usual, everything is volunteer. Even with explicit instructions, it is hard enough to even get the same code to run in a different environ…
For the "hard" sciences, replication often isn't so difficult it seems. LK-99 being an interesting study in this, where people are apparently successfully replicating an experiment described in a rushed paper that is widely agreed to lack sufficient details. It's cutting edge science but replication still isn't a problem. Most science isn't the LHC.
The real problems with replication are found in the softer fields. There it's not just an issue of randomness or difficulty of doing the experiments. If that's all there was to it, no problem. In these fields it's common to find papers or entire fields where none of the work is replicable even in principle. As in, the people doing it don't think other people being able to replicate their work is even important at all, and they may go out of their way to stop people being able to replicate their work (most frequently by gathering data in non-replicable ways and then withholding it deliberately, but sometimes it's just due to the design of the study). The most obvious inference when you see this is that maybe they don't want replication attempts because they know their claims probably aren't true.
So even if peer reviewers or journals were just checking really basic things like, is this claim even replicable in principle, that would be a good start. You would still be left with a lot of papers that replicate fine but their conclusions are still wrong because their methodology is illogical, or papers that replicate because their findings are obvious. But there's so much low hanging fruit.
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then don't call it science, since it doesn't contribute anything to the body of human knowledge. I think it's fascinating that we can at the same time hold things like "one is none" to be true, or that you should write tests first, but with science we already got so used to a lack of discipline that we just declare it fine. It's not hard to not climb a tower you can't get down from. It's the default, actually. You st…
Imagine two scientists, Bob and Alice. Bob has spent the last 5 years examining a theory thoroughly. Now he can explain down to the last detail why the theory does not hold water, and why generations of researchers have been wrong about the issue. Unfortunately, he cannot offer an alternative, and nobody else can follow his long winded arguments anyway. Meanwhile, Alice has spent the last 5 years making the best poss…
Academic science isn’t just the doing science part but the articulation and presentation of your work to the broader community. If Bob knows this space so well, he should be able to clearly communicate the issue and, ideally, present an easily understandable counter example to the existing theory.
Technical folks undervalue presentation when writing articles and presenting at conferences. The burden of proof is on the presenter, and, unless there’s some incredible demonstration at the end, most researchers won’t have the time or attention to slog through your mess of a paper to decipher it. There’s only so much time in the day and too many papers to read.
In my experience, the best researchers are also the best presenters. I’ve been to great talks out of my domain that I left feeling like I understood the importance of their work despite not understanding the details. I’ve also seen many talks in my field that I thought were awful because the presentation was convoluted or they didn’t motivate the importance of their problem / why their work addressed it
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#206I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…
> If someone cares enough about the work to build on it, they will replicate it anyway.
That's duplicative at the "oh maybe this will be useful to me" stage, with N different people trying to replicate. And with replication not a first-class part of the system, the effort of replication (e_R) is high. For appealing things, N is probably > 2. So N X e_R total effort.
If you move the burden at the "replicate to publish" stage, you can fix the number of replicas needed so N=2 (or whatever) and you incentive the orginal researchers to make e_R lower (which will improve the quality of their research even before the submit-for-publication stage).
I've been in the system, I spent a year or two chasing the tail of rewrites, submissions, etc, for something that was detectable as low-effect-size in the first place but I was told would still be publishable. I found out as part of that that it would only sometimes yield a good p-value! And everything in the system incentivized me to hide that for as long as possible, instead of incentivizing me to look for something else or make it easy for others to replicate and judge for themselves.
Hell, do something like "give undergrads the opportunity to earn Master's on top of their BSes, say, by replicating (or blowing holes in) other people's submissions." I would've eaten up an opportunity like that to go really really deep* in some specialized area in exchange for a masters degree in a less-structured way than "just take a bunch more courses."
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#207Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you misunderstand the point of scientific publication here (at least in theory, perhaps less so in practice). The purpose of a paper is typically to say "I have achieved these results in this environment (as far as I can tell)", and encourages reproduction. But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring. Yes, it may just be a measurement error (I r…
> But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring. I disagree. It shows that when someone writes something in a text editor and publishes it, others can read the words they wrote. That's all it shows, by itself. Just like someone writing something on the web only tells us that a textarea accepts just about any input. And even if it did show more than that,…
This thread discusses peer replication, this is not even an analogy.
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#209My mind automatically swapped out the words "peer" for "code". It took my brain to interesting places. When I came back to the actual topic, I had accidentally built a great way to contrast some of the discussion offered in this thread.
In the sense of replicating the results, we do have CI servers and even fuzzers running for our "code replication".
Would code replication result in fewer use after free, or off by one than code review? Or would it mostly be a waste of resources including time?
Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you misunderstand the point of scientific publication here (at least in theory, perhaps less so in practice). The purpose of a paper is typically to say "I have achieved these results in this environment (as far as I can tell)", and encourages reproduction. But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring. Yes, it may just be a measurement error (I r…
> But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring. I disagree. It shows that when someone writes something in a text editor and publishes it, others can read the words they wrote. That's all it shows, by itself. Just like someone writing something on the web only tells us that a textarea accepts just about any input. And even if it did show more than that,…
The way you're describing a scientific publication is as if it were the end result of the scientific act. To use the software analogy, you're describing publication like a software release: all tests have been performed, all CI workflows have passed, QA have checked everything, and the result is about to be shipped to customers.
But talking to researchers, they see publishing more like making a new branch in a repository. There is no expectation that the code in that branch already be perfect (hence why it might only run on one machine, or not even run at all, because sometimes even something that doesn't work is still worth committing and exploring later).
And just like in software, where you might eventually merge those branches and create a release out of it, in the scientific world you have metastudies or other forms of analysis and literature reviews that attempt to glean a consensus out of what has been published so far. And typically in the scientific world, this is what happens. However, in journalism, this isn't usually what happens, and one person's experimental, "I've only tested this on my machine" research is often treated as equivalent to another person's "release branch" paper evaluating the state of a field and identifying which findings are likely to represent real, universal truths.
Which isn't to say that journalists are the only ones at fault here - universities that evaluate researchers primarily on getting papers into journals, and prestige systems that make it hard to go against conventional wisdom in the field both cause similar problems by conflating different levels of research or adding competing incentives to researchers' work. But I don't think that invalidates the basic idea of published research: to present a found result (or non-really), provide as much information as possible about how to replicate the result again, and then let other people use that information to inform their work. It just requires us to be mindful of how we let that research inform us.