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Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

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Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#181
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. I don't see how the current system works really either. Fraud is rampant, and replication crisis is the most common state of most fields. Basically the current system is failing at finding out what is true. Which is the entire point. That's pretty damn…

Fraud seems rampant because you hear about cases of fraud, but not about the tens of thousands of research labs plugging away day after day.

Unfortunately there's a lot of evidence that fraud really is very prevalent and we don't hear about it anywhere near enough. It depends a lot on the field though.

One piece of evidence comes from software like GRIM and SPRITE. GRIM was run over psychology papers and found around 50% had impossible means in them (that could not be arrived at by any combination of allowed inputs) [1]. The authors generally did not cooperate to help uncover the sources of the problems.

Yet another comes from estimates by editors of well known journals. For example Richard Horton at the Lancet is no stranger to fraud, having published and promoted the Surgisphere paper. He estimates that maybe 50% of medical papers are making untrue claims, which is interesting in that this intuition matches the number obtained in a different field by a more rigorous method. The former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine stated that it was "no longer possible to believe much of the medical research that is published".

50%+ is a number that crops up frequently in medicine. The famous Ioannidis paper, "Why most published research findings are false" (2005) has been cited over 12,000 times.

Marc Andreessen has said in an interview that he talked to the head of a very large government grant agency, and asked him whether it could really be true that half of all biomedical research claims were fake? The guy laughed and said no it's not true, it's more like 90%. [2]

Elizabeth Bik uncovers a lot of fraud. Her work is behind the recent resignation of the head of Stanford University for example. Years ago she said, "Science has a huge problem: 100s (1000s?) of science papers with obvious photoshops that have been reported, but that are all swept under the proverbial rug, with no action or only an author-friendly correction … There are dozens of examples where journals rather accept a clean (better photoshopped?) figure redo than asking the authors for a thorough explanation." In reality there seem to be far more than mere thousands, as there are companies that specialize in professionally producing fake scientific papers, and whole markets where they are bought and sold.

So you have people who are running the scientific system saying, on the record, that they think science is overrun with fake results. And there is some quantitive data to support this. And it seems to happen quite often now that presidents of entire universities are being caught having engaged in or having signed off on rule breaking behavior, like image manipulation or plagiarism, implying that this behavior is at least rewarded or possibly just very common.

There are also whole fields in which the underlying premises are known to be false so arguably that's also pretty deceptive (e.g. "bot studies"). If you include those then it's quite likely indeed that most published research is simply untrue.

[1] https://peerj.com/preprints/2064v1/

[2] https://www.richardhanania.com/p/flying-x-wings-into-the-dea...

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#182

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

What's the value in publishing something that is never replicated? If no one ever reproduces the experiment and gets the same results then you don't know if any interpretations based on that experiment are valid. It would also mean that whatever practical applications could have come from the experiment are never realized. It makes the entire pursuit seem completely useless.

> What's the value in publishing something that is never replicated?

Because it presents an experimental result to other scientists that they may consider worth trying to replicate?

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#183

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

> This is also all work that doesn't benefit the scientists replicating the paper. It only costs them money and time.

Maybe this is what needs to change. If we only reward discovery and success, then the incentive is to only produce discovery and success.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#184
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a system where peer replication is required if the number of citations exceeds some threshold?

Who will be replicating it? Why would I want to set aside my own research to replicate some claim someone made? How would this help my career?

I dunno. Offhand, I guess whoever is citing the work would need to replicate it, but only if it's cited sufficiently (overall number of citations, considered foundational, etc...)

This could help your career by increasing the probability that the work you're citing is more likely accurate, and as a result, your work is also likely more accurate.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#185

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

Well, you could put incentives to make replication attractive. Give credit for replication. Give money to the researchers doing the replication/review. Today we pay an average of 2000€ per article, reviewers get 0€ and the editorial keeps all for putting a pdf online. I would say there is margin there to invest in improving the review process.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that most labs are probably not out to defraud people. But without replication I don't think it's reasonable to have much confidence in what is published.

That's not what publication is about. Publication is a conversation with other researchers; it is part of the process of reaching the truth, not its endpoint.

Sure, and scientists need a place to have such conversations.

But publication is not a closed system. The "published, peer-reviewed paper" is frequently an artifact used to decide practical policy matters in many institutions both public and private. To the extent that Science (as an institution in its own right) wants to influence policy, that influence needs to be grounded in reproducible results.

Also, I would not be surprised if stronger emphasis on reproducibility improved the quality of conversation among scientists.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#187
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And still people come to me with some bug that they've experienced on their machine, that I cannot reproduce on my machine But this is the other way around. Have you ever written a program that doesn't run anywhere except a single machine of yours? Would you release it and advertise it and encourage other people to use it as dependency in their software? If it only runs on one machine of yours, you don't even know…

I think you misunderstand the point of scientific publication here (at least in theory, perhaps less so in practice). The purpose of a paper is typically to say "I have achieved these results in this environment (as far as I can tell)", and encourages reproduction. But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring. Yes, it may just be a measurement error (I r…

> But the original result is useful in its own right - it tells us that there may be something worth exploring.

I disagree. It shows that when someone writes something in a text editor and publishes it, others can read the words they wrote. That's all it shows, by itself. Just like someone writing something on the web only tells us that a textarea accepts just about any input.

And even if it did show more than that, when someone "explores" it, is the result is more of that, something that might be true, might not be, but "is worth exploring"? Then at what point does falsifiability enter into it? Why not right away? To me it's just another variation of making it someone else's problem, kicking the can down the road.

> if it is exciting enough, and lots of eyes end up looking, then flaws are typically found fairly quickly.

If that was true, there wouldn't even be a replication issue, much less a replication crisis. It's like saying open source means a lot of people look at the code, if it's important enough. Time and time again that's proven wrong, e.g. https://www.zdnet.com/article/open-source-software-security-...

> yes of course I've written code that only runs on my machine. I imagine everyone has

I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that. Can you post something that only runs on one of your machines, and you don't know why? Note I didn't say your machine, I said one machine of yours. Would you publish something that runs on one machine of yours but not a single other one, other than to ask "can anyone tell me why this only runs on this machine"? I doubt it.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#188

I don't see how this could ever work, and non-scientists seem to often dramatically underestimate the amount of work it would be to replicate every published paper. This of course depends a lot on the specific field, but it can easily be months of effort to replicate a paper. You save some time compared to the original as you don't have to repeat the dead ends and you might receive some samples and can skip parts of…

lets be brutally honest with ourselves. 99% of all papers mean nothing. They add nothing to the collective knowledge of humanity. In my field of robotics there are SOOO many papers that are basically taking three or four established algorithms/machine learning models, and applying them to off-the-shelf hardware. The kind of thing any person educated in the field could almost guess the results exactly. Hundreds of suc…

> 99% of all papers mean nothing. They add nothing to the collective knowledge of humanity.

A lot of papers are done as a part of the process of getting a degree or keeping or getting job. The value is mostly the candidate showing they have the acumen to produce a paper of such quality that meets the publisher and peer review requirements. In some cases, it is to show a future employer some level of accomplishment or renown. The knowledge for humanity is mostly the authors ability to get published.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#189
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia's values are not objective. Why is it that replicating or refuting a study is not seen on par as being a co-author of said study? There is nothing set in stone preventing this, only the current academic culture.

Because I want to do original research, and be known for doing original research. Only if I fail at that, I might settle for being a guy who reproduces others’ work (which basically means the transition from a researcher to an engineer).

Whether or not you would be doing original research depends on whether the cited work can be replicated.

If the cited work is unable to be replicated, and you try to replicate but get different results, then you would be doing original research, and then you can base further work on your initial original study that came to a different result.

On the flip side, if you are able to replicate it, then you are doing extra work initially, but after replicating the work you've cited, the work you've done is more likely to be reproducible by someone else.

The amount of citations needed to require replication could itself be a function of how easy it is to replicate work across an entire field.

A field where there's a high rate of success in replicating work could have a higher threshold for requiring replication compared to a field where it's difficult to replicate work.

Re: Replace peer review with “peer replication” (2021)

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the value in publishing something that is never replicated? If no one ever reproduces the experiment and gets the same results then you don't know if any interpretations based on that experiment are valid. It would also mean that whatever practical applications could have come from the experiment are never realized. It makes the entire pursuit seem completely useless.

> What's the value in publishing something that is never replicated? Because it presents an experimental result to other scientists that they may consider worth trying to replicate?

Then those unconfirmed results are better put on arxiv, instead of being used to evaluate the performance of scientists. Tenure and grant committees should only consider replicated work.
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