How India Became America • Hacker News Board

Re: How India Became America

#91

Post by allochthon » Sun, Mar 11, 2012, 7:38 PM UTC

edderly wrote: post #80

allochthon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India harbors a large percentage of the world's population; it's not surprising that it has many of the world's poor people. That India is poorer than the US and western Europe cannot be denied. I've been there, and I've seen the poverty. But the challenges it's dealing with are huge. And I don't think criticism from the bleachers will do much to improve the situation.

I think you'll find that India still receives foreign aid from 'the bleachers'.

bleachers, n., "Usually, bleachers. a typically roofless section of inexpensive and unreserved seats in tiers, especially at an open-air athletic stadium."

Re: How India Became America

#92

Post by avstraliitski » Sun, Mar 11, 2012, 9:33 PM UTC

The most important difference between India and anywhere else, to my mind, is an overwhelming sense of and appreciation for greater concerns (throughout all of its religious/philosophical communities): the notion that there's more to life than it appears, that we are all elements within some greater epic, that differences are not just to be tolerated but perhaps celebrated, and that despite the often chaotic, corrupt, and immoral way in which India's bureaucracy runs against the above the whole thing somehow balances itself in to a unity and resonates in a certain way with people - Indians are, in my experience almost without exception, proud to be Indian.

The lead-in image to the article is a mall in Chennai. I didn't visit any. I landed in Chennai, got a taxi in to town (a mission in itself), and wound up physically caked in air pollution. Literally dodging shit on the muddy road, I found a guesthouse and woke up to this view: http://bit.ly/wnQzfo (Subsequent galleries show some of the country's real beauty.)

Re: How India Became America

#93

Post by furiouslysleepy » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:42 AM UTC

abhaga wrote: post #69

furiouslysleepy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I especially love the part about Panchayats losing their authority -- those old fucks need to all resign, and quickly. I'm not being anti-tradition or whatever. Panchayats routinely carry out horrific human rights violations against women and lower casts. This barbaric system has to be replaced by actual courts.

A very broad generalization. You are confusing Panchayats with "Khap Panchayats" and other traditional community panchayats which have been in news for honor killings and such. These panchayats are traditional bodies with no powers sanctioned by law or constitution. Separate from that, there is a whole system of local governance based on panchayats. These bodies play a very important role in letting the local people…

Ok, I looked it up, you're right.

I've never lived in a village, my perception of Panchayats was wholly informed by the news.

Re: How India Became America

#94

Post by furiouslysleepy » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 4:46 AM UTC

tathagatadg wrote: post #75

furiouslysleepy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most people around the world are averse to business. Is there really a bigger proportion of Chinese or Russian or Egyptian businesspersons than Indian? (In fact, India has a handful of extremely business-minded communities -- the Marwadis and the Gujaratis, and to a lesser extent the Punjabis, Sindhis and Malayalis. If anything, India does relatively well on this metric.)

Interesting point ... Do you think the geography of the region played a big role in keeping the tradition alive? I'm always surprised to see how my community (Bengalis) are so resistant to business - even though I have read Bengali traders ventured into overseas trading way back in history. What I felt was Calcutta becoming the capital during British India, generated a lot of government jobs for 200 years. That growt…

Perhaps... I'm not entirely sure why this is the way things are. The histories of specific Indian communities are often completely fascinating, and I wish there was more literature on the subject and I had more time to read it. :)

Re: How India Became America

#95

Post by vacri » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 7:09 AM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #89

vacri wrote: post #81

Having Starbucks is a measure of success? At this point, I'd happily like to point out that my country - Australia - weathered the GFC better than pretty much anyone else and has an exceptionally strong currency, low unemployment, and is generally up near the top on any quality of life measure. Starbucks came here, opened nearly a hundred stores... and failed horribly - they were too shortsighted to see that we alrea…

The funny thing is that Turkey (Or at least, Istanbul) has quite a few Starbucks. (And Gloria Jeans, for whatever reason, really took hold there.) But the point is that if you have a Starbucks, you have people who can afford Starbucks.

That's a good point, but opening a single store (as in the article) is nothing to hang your hat on - pretty much every country has a social elite who could support a few stores.

In the heart of Hanoi there's a KFC (there's a few throughout VN, at least in the tourist areas) and the Vietnamese economy is booming... in Vietnamese terms. They're still incredibly poor with a 30% inflation rate, and the KFC is charging Vietnamese prices, not western prices. KFC may have plonked some stores down and localised them a bit, but that doesn't mean that the locals have anything like a western quality of life.

I found it interesting that although the food in the KFC was different (though still fowl), it was the same experience in terms of disinterested teenage staff, overloud music, and grimy plastic seating...

Re: How India Became America

#96

Post by samsudden » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 2:02 PM UTC

shriphani wrote: post #35

mds101 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the reality is that we are a dirt poor country with not just deep institutional problems, but also moral and psychological ones. I was searching for the words to express this for more than ten minutes before I read your comment. The key here is 'moral and psychological problems'. To cite just one example, there was a lot of ruckus about the 2G Scam and the Lokpal bill recently. We believe that the guy who got 17200…

A bigger problem is the insane benefits someone rich can reap with just a savings account in India. The large interest rates that you get in the State Bank and the enormous loopholes that everyone exploits essentially means that there's an entire class of people whose interest earned on savings is sufficient to land them in the top 5% of the population. Why would anyone be motivated to take risks after such a deal ?…

I am sure the benefits of savings accounts (4% p.a. return on average?) are not sufficient to foster an entire class of people living on them. Most businesses would give returns far higher than this, making the risk-free saving account not a great option.

Re: How India Became America

#97

Post by harichinnan » Mon, Mar 12, 2012, 3:23 PM UTC

Another disillusioned Indian here. I'm in the middle of a month long vacation after living in US for 3 years.

After a boom of 10 years, we now have really good highways in most part of the country. However I saw at least one bullock cart, some stray cows and people trying to cross a 4 lane US Interstate like Highway. Also the entries to highways were ill-planned. Traffic regulations and speed limits were not updated in light of recent developments.

Tamil Nadu, one of the growth engines of Indian economy gets 10 hr power cuts everyday because the chief minister refuses to open a newly constructed nuclear power plant.

Engineering colleges in India track their students round the clock and report to parents on their activities. Someone I know goes to a school where they conduct "aptitude" classes 3 saturdays+ one sunday a month for preparing students to attend Infosys(Wipro, TCS)( All three have the same business models, body shops) interviews. Kids literally buy their thesis(project) from companies that have a ready made project for them, so they could focus more on getting into one of the Body Shops.

Also I just read that many of the companies that got into "emerging "(Airlines, Telecom) Indian economy are either running on losses or never made a profit.