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How India Became America

nytimes.com

81–90 of 97 posts

Re: How India Became America

#81
Having Starbucks is a measure of success?

At this point, I'd happily like to point out that my country - Australia - weathered the GFC better than pretty much anyone else and has an exceptionally strong currency, low unemployment, and is generally up near the top on any quality of life measure. Starbucks came here, opened nearly a hundred stores... and failed horribly - they were too shortsighted to see that we already had a quality coffee culture (born of our Italians, Greeks and Turks) and their shitty coffee made no inroads here.

(an aside - the one and only time I've had anything from starbucks was an iced chocolate in LA on a hot day - and it was gritty)

So I read this article and wonder if they've totally misread another market. Whatever the case may be, having Starbucks is not a sign that your country is successful.

Re: How India Became America

#82
post #31

India is a big, diverse country in terms of people, culture and economy. The article is pigeonholing a country with over a billion people in sparse categories. Any article talking about "India" is mostly generalizing based on a small dataset. The filty rich, people dressed in filty clothes, and "people in between" co-exist in India. The first experience of India starts right where the airport ends - the crowd of tout…

That being said, even if you only market to the Indian middle class, that's a market of over 100 million people.

Re: How India Became America

#84
post #82
post #31

India is a big, diverse country in terms of people, culture and economy. The article is pigeonholing a country with over a billion people in sparse categories. Any article talking about "India" is mostly generalizing based on a small dataset. The filty rich, people dressed in filty clothes, and "people in between" co-exist in India. The first experience of India starts right where the airport ends - the crowd of tout…

That being said, even if you only market to the Indian middle class, that's a market of over 100 million people.

I believe I read somewhere India has the largest middle class population in the world, and it was around 250M people.

Re: How India Became America

#85
This article references Bangalore & Chennai for the most parts. Both the cities have higher majority of educated people is higher and large influx of "MNC Incomes". Cliche as it may be the "real" India is still in villages.

You can't make statement like "India Became America " based on 5-10 cities in India.

As majority of India doesn't have

- Basic Education

- Basic Health services

- Electricity

- Minimal Infrastructure to grow (including Road, Housing)

Re: How India Became America

#86
post #82
post #31

India is a big, diverse country in terms of people, culture and economy. The article is pigeonholing a country with over a billion people in sparse categories. Any article talking about "India" is mostly generalizing based on a small dataset. The filty rich, people dressed in filty clothes, and "people in between" co-exist in India. The first experience of India starts right where the airport ends - the crowd of tout…

That being said, even if you only market to the Indian middle class, that's a market of over 100 million people.

True, but I was objecting to presenting India as one coherent, consistent entity which it is not.

Re: How India Became America

#87
There are a lot of interesting comments here, and I especially appreciate the comments from people who know India (a place I have never been). The author of the submitted article says he grew up mostly in India and in Minnesota, the place where I was born, grew up, and now live. The article seems to suggest, with its anecdote

"She leads a simple life (impoverished even, by American standards), but she is immeasurably better off than she was a couple of decades ago. She grew up in a thatch hut. Now she lives in a house with a concrete roof, running water and electricity. Her son owns a cellphone and drives a motorcycle. Her niece is going to college.

"But not long before we talked, there had been a murder in the area, the latest in a series of violent attacks and killings. Shops that hadn’t existed a decade ago were boarded up in anticipation of further violence; the police patrolled newly tarred roads."

that crime will increase when "Americanization" happens to a society. I think that is a mistaken conclusion. I have lived overseas, for two three-years stays, in Taiwan, both before and after Taiwan's democratization. Reduction in crime seems to depend crucially on both effective law enforcement and on a civil society that builds cohesion and community norms against crime. Rapidly transforming societies--in whatever direction they are transforming--seem to suffer a breakdown of social order and an increase in crime rate. That's just what was happening in the United States as I grew up. But today crime rates in the United States are actually much lower, for nearly all types of crime, and especially for violent crime, than they were in my early adulthood. My Minnesota neighborhood and the whole large suburban municipality surrounding it is essentially crime-free, with almost the only life-threatening form of crime being driving while drunk. My whole family, including my young children, can walk or bicycle anywhere within more than a five-mile radius at any hour of day or night and have no fear of any kind of crime. I have urban habits formed in childhood of looking the door of our house every evening, but it's no worry if we ever leave the house without looking it up, and possessions like bicycles and skateboards and patio furniture can be left outdoors unattended for days on end with no one stealing them or damaging them.

More generally, in view of the many interesting comments here, I think India has a much brighter future from today than, say, China. India has a great many problems, according to every person from India I know, but India has a free press and moderately fair elections and a great deal of openness about talking about societal problems. China, by contrast, does not permit such open criticism of corruption, political favoritism, and police inaction against crime as is routine in India. Both because India has a government that must be accountable to voters and a free press to watch the government, and because people from India have access through the English language to the consequences of different political and economic systems around the world, I expect India to fix more of its problems more smoothly over the next few decades than China, and ultimately to be a leading example for countries around the world in how to build a cohesive, diverse, and thriving society with much freedom to choose the best of the traditional and modern.

Re: How India Became America

#88
post #31

India is a big, diverse country in terms of people, culture and economy. The article is pigeonholing a country with over a billion people in sparse categories. Any article talking about "India" is mostly generalizing based on a small dataset. The filty rich, people dressed in filty clothes, and "people in between" co-exist in India. The first experience of India starts right where the airport ends - the crowd of tout…

You should know that there's no such thing as Aryan invasion.

Note that I said believed to be Aryan descendants. I have seen the studies de-bunking Aryan invasion based on the genetic make-up, but I don't believe there is a consensus yet.

More importantly, I was pointing out India as a country fragments itself at all levels. You know what will change if the Aryan invasion was a myth - nothing as far as the north indian and south indian fragmentation is concerned.

Re: How India Became America

#89
post #81

Having Starbucks is a measure of success? At this point, I'd happily like to point out that my country - Australia - weathered the GFC better than pretty much anyone else and has an exceptionally strong currency, low unemployment, and is generally up near the top on any quality of life measure. Starbucks came here, opened nearly a hundred stores... and failed horribly - they were too shortsighted to see that we alrea…

The funny thing is that Turkey (Or at least, Istanbul) has quite a few Starbucks. (And Gloria Jeans, for whatever reason, really took hold there.) But the point is that if you have a Starbucks, you have people who can afford Starbucks.

Re: How India Became America

#90
post #49

(Speaking as person who has spent 10+ years in each country) India is no where close to America. There are so many enormous fundamental differences that anyone making such a comparison needs to be looked at as naive at best. - India's population id 4X that of America - More than half the population is below the poverty line - India is amongst the most corrupt nations in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of…

> Indians by and large "play it safe" in everything If you're an Indian businessperson, you have two options - copy the US and make a good ROI, or risk everything on creating a new product for a potentially better ROI. The choice is obvious - it's far cheaper (and more beneficial) to play catch-up than innovate. The question is - why is India still playing catch-up? I don't know that much about India. I'm guessing th…

I agree with your last line. We have numerous parties that are "caste based". Bigger parties typically have alliance with the smaller "caste based" parties because they can win the votes of people who are of particular caste.

One such example of a party(there are many) is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattali_Makkal_Katchi [From wikipedia] >Ramdoss had earlier worked with the Vanniyar Sangham (Vanniyar Union) founded by him in 1980. PMK is based amongst the Most Backward Class Vanniyakula Kshatriyas community.

Vanniyar is a caste in the south Indian state of Tamil Nadu

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