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All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

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Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#101

Post by JumpCrisscross »

musicale wrote: post #66
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my sister who had a masters and is making $35k as a teacher Tennessee If it's a public school, those loans should begin falling off after five years and be forgiven after ten [1]. [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/teacher-student...

IIRC PSLF originally required not ten years of elapsed time but rather 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a qualifying repayment plan, where "on-time" was determined by the loan servicer. And you had to keep working beyond that time until the application was approved (most were rejected) and processed (probably as quickly as government departments usually operate.) Loan servicers had every incentive to thw…

> 120 sequential on-time payments in full under a specific repayment plan

The sequential requirement has been removed, right?

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#102

Post by giantg2 »

benatkin wrote: post #15
eropple wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making college free regardless of academic preparation (the article does not mention any) is a bad idea. Where does it say that acceptance is guaranteed?

Community colleges are included in the program. This seems to be a part of a guaranteed jobs program. Wish we were moving to a basic income program but I'm convinced that we will need one or the other or some combination of the two. Jobs at a community college would be ideal to replace some of the early jobs that would be eliminated by AI.

I would assume a guaranteed job system (with a disability component) is a form of basic income.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#104

Post by pessimizer »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #53
pessimizer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affirmative action shouldn't ever have been a contest with prizes for the most unfortunate. It was sold as a way to fix the wrongs of slavery. Having been enslaved legally in the US is not a race, it's an atrocity. The reason we should be paying for foster kids' college is because the state is their parent, so it's our responsibility. In a country that wasn't shit, regular people would be jealous of how kids who were…

I agree completely. Something so striking about the situation as well is that on balance, we have a staggering amount of wealth to share with the less fortunate. Yet these are children, specifically, who deserve every opportunity we can afford them by default. Not “hopeless addicts” or some other group deemed not worth saving by so many of us, but people quite literally the epitome of worth saving. These people need…

For me, state wards are one of the four metrics for judging the quality of a country.

Wards of the state: our responsibility, through no fault of their own.

Prisoners: our responsibility, their fault.

Immigrants: not our responsibility, but an indication of how well we can manage our economy. We should be able to put anybody who comes here to work.

Emigrants: we should let people leave who don't want to be here.

The first three are connected because there's no way to sustain providing anything for prisoners and immigrants that you don't provide for regular citizens. Wards of the state are the nation's children; there's nothing that normal citizens get that they shouldn't get. If they don't get anything, normal citizens are getting less than nothing.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#105

Post by asveikau »

axlee wrote: post #96
asveikau wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States, a lot of times the individual situation is correlated to their skin color. The condition of being descendants of slaves, or people who faced other forms of official discrimination cited in the prevention of intergenerational wealth such as redlining, blockbusting or unfavorable treatment in the GI bill, etc., is ultimately an individual situation for each individual affected. The idea that you c…

How many slaves in the family tree should someone have to qualify? Do white slaves count? How far back should we go? Would citizens whose families have immigrated to this country after the deed be also on the hook for reparations? Should reparations only be given to struggling people, or should they be given out regardless of the situation of the descendant of a slave? It's a lot easier to quantify and equalize the s…

I agree, it's hard to codify. But there is undoubtedly a large group of people, often identified by their race, that face disproportionate hardship and continued to be legally discriminated against well after slavery was abolished. And note that I mentioned other, post-slavery problems, and you jump right into "how many slaves??"

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#106

Post by JumpCrisscross »

j45 wrote: post #79
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what affirmative action should be... helping people out based on their individual situation Also, just helping them out. Nobody gets hurt. This isn't creating an allotment of seats for foster kids. The selection process, and thus odds, are the same for them and everyone else.

Maybe the new affirmative action is visible minorities or other groups just get free education? But then you’d need a K-12 system that doesn’t fail them or set them up for not succeeding by getting them into lower stream courses.

Free prenatal and neonatal care seems like an obvious first step. It's literally taking care of the unborn and babies, so they have a healthy start to life. (I similarly believe education, school breakfasts and lunches, and pediatric care should be free.)

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#107

Post by lolinder »

asveikau wrote: post #83
getmeinrn wrote: post #13

This is what affirmative action should be... helping people out based on their individual situation, not because their skin color or gender.

In the United States, a lot of times the individual situation is correlated to their skin color. The condition of being descendants of slaves, or people who faced other forms of official discrimination cited in the prevention of intergenerational wealth such as redlining, blockbusting or unfavorable treatment in the GI bill, etc., is ultimately an individual situation for each individual affected. The idea that you c…

I don't think anyone here is denying that there is a correlation, but there's a very legitimate question over whether policy should target the correlated trait (skin color) or the hardship itself (poverty) when trying to fix the problem.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#108

Post by themitigating »

axlee wrote: post #96
asveikau wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States, a lot of times the individual situation is correlated to their skin color. The condition of being descendants of slaves, or people who faced other forms of official discrimination cited in the prevention of intergenerational wealth such as redlining, blockbusting or unfavorable treatment in the GI bill, etc., is ultimately an individual situation for each individual affected. The idea that you c…

How many slaves in the family tree should someone have to qualify? Do white slaves count? How far back should we go? Would citizens whose families have immigrated to this country after the deed be also on the hook for reparations? Should reparations only be given to struggling people, or should they be given out regardless of the situation of the descendant of a slave? It's a lot easier to quantify and equalize the s…

There were racist laws all the way up to late 1960s.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#109

Post by themitigating »

torstenvl wrote: post #24
megaman821 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All school lunches and breakfasts should be free. It is abhorrent that any child in a country as rich as the United States should go hungry at school.

As a taxpayer who funds public schools, I find it acceptable to subsidize the food of those who are struggling, but I do not have any desire to subsidize the ruling elite (who, in many cases, intentionally keep working class pay low). They can pay for their own children's food.

Since the children of elites represent such a small percentage and the cost per child is low is it really that big of a hit?

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#110

Post by pessimizer »

duskwuff wrote: post #78
MikeTheGreat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand I 100% agree On the other hand we've got the phrase "Programs for the poor become poor" for a reason. Having a program that benefits everyone means that we all can support it out of enlightened self-interest. We can reduce overhead by providing food for everyone and not putting in place a complex government bureaucracy to carefully approve some people but not others, to give lobbyists a chance to advo…

Moreover, if free food is only available to low-income students, having to eat that food can become a symbol of poverty, and some students may feel ashamed to receive it. Making it available to all students, without reservation, avoids that.

Also, you can literally lower the quality of the food.
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