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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

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Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#101

Post by analog31 »

msoad wrote: post #2

I wonder if it's even worth trying to define a person's personality? I've been following this research for a while now. Almost all the studies I've seen have substantial flaws in their scientific methodology, such as small sample sizes and selection bias, among other issues. Don't even get me started on the replication crisis in this field. Regarding theories like Jung's introversion and extraversion or the subsequen…

Imagine a relationship in which one person can read the other's mind. This is the power of gods: They know our thoughts, but we don't know theirs. The only rational conclusion is total submission to their will, or to the will of their representatives. The offer of such a power, even to a severely limited extent, is appealing enough for people to part ways with their money and natural skepticism.

Can it be beneficial? A list of categories that seems authoritative and scientific but is open to interpretation can give some people a sense of comfort that they belong in their "place" within the organization, that there are other people facing similar experiences, or that they are not personally at fault. It can give a beginning manager the confidence to interact with colleagues and subordinates by means of a formula.

Can it be harmful? Sure, it opens people to manipulation and bias, or persuades them to give up their agency.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#102

Post by analog31 »

dosman33 wrote: post #78
msoad wrote: post #2

I wonder if it's even worth trying to define a person's personality? I've been following this research for a while now. Almost all the studies I've seen have substantial flaws in their scientific methodology, such as small sample sizes and selection bias, among other issues. Don't even get me started on the replication crisis in this field. Regarding theories like Jung's introversion and extraversion or the subsequen…

I got a sigh of relief when I finally discovered that Myers-Briggs is partly broken. It's designed to not offend anyone by avoiding measuring neuroticism so it's "work-safe". I had been struggling to understand how people were able to understand personality defects of out of the Myers-Briggs system and then eventually it became clear that it doesn't do this, it avoids measuring neuroticism, and worse than that it's o…

You can also game the Myers-Briggs to avoid the introvert classification.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#103

Post by iainmerrick »

karaterobot wrote: post #47
rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

> I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides For the record, I don't think this has anything to do with the U.S., false dichotomies are a more or less equally common human shorthand anywhere and anywhen that I've visited, or studied at all. I've assumed it's because people don't have time or energy to consider all the nuances of everything all the ti…

There are two types of people -- those who like to split everything into two categories, and those who believe everything exists on a continuous spectrum.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#104

Post by [deleted] »

norir wrote: post #94
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Jung, most of what he wrote is barely coherent garbage with zero experimental backing and an attitude towards intellectual honesty and scientific integrity which I would politely qualify as problematic. Sorry, I think it had to be said.

Do you fear Jung's ideas? If they are incoherent garbage with no merit, shouldn't they just collapse under their own weight?

[deleted]

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#105

Post by AndrewKemendo »

tayo42 wrote: post #75
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed totally and Brene Brown has done great work on this topic - along with the whole Emotionally Focused Therapy movement. My MBTI would reliably give me INTJ from ages 16-37 Now I reliably test as ENFP What changed was my relationship with myself, and society, after coming to some hard realizations about my childhood and decades of trauma. I’ve seen similar changes in others, and I watch as (mostly) extroverted b…

ive kind of agree with your conclusion, though trauma makes it sound intense. i guess im kind of quiet, reservered "introverted", people always tell me how they eventually come out of their shell or w/e and one day i will. seems like people are always changing. i think anxiety and stuff has more to do with peoples social interactions

It's a shame that Trauma is only thought of as something violent, when it is often very subtle and "peaceful."

Mostly cause we think of Trauma as adult trauma from War or displacement, or significant physical or emotional child abuse - but it can be as simple as your parent persistently telling you you're in the way etc...

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#106

Post by hightrix »

yarekt wrote: post #92
m463 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a spectrum of social interactions. There are negative social interactions, and they frequently leave me drained, or seeking solitude. There are busy interactions where lots of people require my time and attention even though I have other things to do - they can also leave me drained. There are also positive interactions, with friends or maybe places where people are gathered with a common interest t…

Yea I think you’re getting close. I enjoy social interactions, but even the most enjoyable ones drain me, even though once I recharge, I end up seeking them out despite. Sometimes the negative emphasis of the word “drain” makes it tricky to understand

Yeah, agreed. I could be with my best friends doing my favorite activity at a pace that I chose and still be completely drained by the end of it, needing time to recoup.

I imagine that, just like how it is impossible for me to empathize with someone that gets re-energized from social interaction, it is nearly impossible for an extrovert to understand how introverts feel.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#107

Post by kaashif »

stronglikedan wrote: post #76
tayo42 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you went camping on your own, you dont think you still need to recharge?

No, I do that to recharge.

Something about this interaction is funny to me. It's like an alien asking: but after you drink all that water, won't you die? And the human replies: no, I actually do that to stay alive.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#109

Post by OkayPhysicist »

prewett wrote: post #79
sublinear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not since my reply went a bit sideways. I just felt it would benefit others more to hear my perspective. Anyway, the social game is to just filter noise and find the signal you want. When you look at all the self help books on this, they're all very scholastic and merely teach techniques that sour once they're well known. A famous one is repeating someone's name back to them. I ca…

I've met people like this, and I don't think that is charisma. I think a better description of charisma is enjoying people. The people I think have the most "charisma" are the ones that always seem glad to see whoever it is, and they seem be like this for everyone. Kind of like a (pet) dog: they seem to think every new person is going to be an absolutely wonderful experience. Whereas there are some people I enjoy and…

That reverses the definition as everybody understands it. Charisma is when people enjoy your presence, which is definitely helped by them feeling good for making you feel good.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#110

Post by tayo42 »

kaashif wrote: post #107
stronglikedan wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I do that to recharge.

Something about this interaction is funny to me. It's like an alien asking: but after you drink all that water, won't you die? And the human replies: no, I actually do that to stay alive.

camping is a pretty tiring activity though on its own
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