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LazyVim

lazyvim.org

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Re: LazyVim

#371

Post by sgarland »

danjac wrote: post #239
Arch-TK wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of work needed to get a basic IDE up and running for your languages of choice, even for commonly used languages such as Python or Javascript, is far too much for someone who wants to get on with their day job or hobby coding and doesn't want to spend precious hours fixing obscure issues in Lua. First off, editing Python (I am not familiar with Javascript enough to make any claims about it) doesn't requir…

> I agree that neovim is not for people who are not interested in learning their tools. That, right there, is one of the biggest turnoffs I have encountered from the community. The sheer disdain in that sentence alone. I learn many tools, and am deeply interested in learning them. That includes languages, frameworks, databases, infrastructure tools, operating systems, standards and protocols. I wouldn't be in this jo…

>> I agree that neovim is not for people who are not interested in learning their tools.

> That, right there, is one of the biggest turnoffs I have encountered from the community. The sheer disdain in that sentence alone.

> I realized what I… [is] a good-enough IDE that lets me do the things I’m actually interested in…

By your own admission, you’re not interested in learning tooling.

No one reasonably claims that vim is easy. If you don’t want to learn it, then don’t, but don’t take offense when someone points this out.

Re: LazyVim

#372

Post by rcarr »

johannboehme wrote: post #358
rcarr wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As someone now in their 30s who didn't learn to code until their 20s, I've tried several times with vim/emacs but it just isn't worth the hassle because I just don't have the free time anymore to endlessly fuck about with config files and learning the ins and outs of each program. So many of the absolute best seem to use one of vim/emacs but then so many of the absolute best started coding when they were childr…

hmm.. but you also spent a lot of time to learn programming. Why not invest some time in the use of professional tools? If you master an editor like vim, you'll never need to spend time to learn additional IDEs. In the past i needed to learn VSCode, Eclipse, IntelliJ, XCode, Visual Studio and some other niche IDEs. All have very different menu structures and keybinds. Just to unify that was worth the time learning vi…

Because I don't need to? I honestly think it would be easier to follow along with a tutorial for whatever language I'm using in any of those editors you've mentioned than one for Vim or Emacs.

Re: LazyVim

#373

Post by silasdavis »

LinXitoW wrote: post #281
silasdavis wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can identify with much of this. After an unfortunate bout of Java development, I was flung into the arms of Intellij, steadily won over by the indexing and the reliability of the refactoring tools. The Vim plugin was good enough and defining some chords for editor shortcuts resulted in a kind of fucked up fat vim emacs mode that was quite productive. I, too, got fed up of spending inordinate amounts of debugging vi…

I somewhat like Intellij too, but it seems insanely slow, esp. with the Vim plugin. I have to slow down my editing sometimes, because all it's fancy features can't handle the speed.

When it's having a particular bad day I can sometimes rename a file-local unexported symbol faster than it can (pointlessly) search the entire repository for the name. Or when it's on an indexing holiday I can navigate by memory to a file I want with mouse-and-tree faster than it can. This make me sad and feels more common than it used to.

Re: LazyVim

#374

Post by dbalatero »

roland35 wrote: post #302
eptcyka wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about control+c? Also, I've never used vim without remapping `jj` to .

I think jk is a bit easier to type but they both work well!

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, repeating the same key with the same finger is slower than dropping two fingers down onto `jk`.

Re: LazyVim

#375

Post by dbalatero »

SanderNL wrote: post #309
danjac wrote: post #78

I've been using vim for years, switched to neovim, and at this point I'm ready to throw in the towel and just use vscode for anything beyond simple text editing. The amount of work needed to get a basic IDE up and running for your languages of choice, even for commonly used languages such as Python or Javascript, is far too much for someone who wants to get on with their day job or hobby coding and doesn't want to sp…

I feel you, but I’d like to point the Finger in the other direction as well: (modern) programming is not sane. The tools and the environment are not made to be sharp and minimal, we are not using hammers and screwdrivers, we are all using custom made chainsaws with hundreds of proprietary extensions and that’s about as minimal as it gets. Sometimes it’s actually more like wielding multiple nunchucks each covered with…

Sorry what alternative are you proposing?

Instead of syntax highlighting do you want… minimal syntax in languages? Instead of autocomplete do you just want to type the thing out manually? Instead of go-to def do you just want the code in 1 file?

These things didn't require language servers historically, but LSP was an attempt to reduce "many editors re-implementing the same functionality many times" to "implementing the same functionality once and connecting many editors to it". This has a cost, and YMMV on the docs for getting LSPs set up, but I don't think I'd prefer going back. I don't use it, but it seems like VSCode has 1-click plugin installs for most of these LSP integrations, more or less?

Re: LazyVim

#376

Post by wzdd »

distcs wrote: post #361
sidibe wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spacemacs defaults to fd, I don't think I ever accidentally left insert mode with that. Happy vscode user these days. If I find myself fiddling with an editor it's a huge red flag to me that I hate what I'm working on.

I still don't understand how these mappings are good. What if you need to type "fd" in insert mode? Like fd0, fd1, etc. Isn't that going to be a pain? Do you never have to type "fd"?

There is a timeout on multi-key mappings, so if you need to type fd0 you type f, wait 'timeoutlen' (1 second by default apparently), then type d0.

That's a pain, but it doesn't come up often. In return you get quite a lot of functionality (due to vim being modal) without having to move your fingers beyond the letter keys, which is quite relaxing.

Re: LazyVim

#377

Post by dbalatero »

danjac wrote: post #118
CGamesPlay wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like you just told me that the thing that works without extra steps isn't cool. Is the problem that you're worried about not being cool?

The problem is when you are a newbie to a space, you don't know the difference between "cool" and "what is the best practice as defined by the experts".

I'm a huge Neovim user, but the amount of "hey guys I just rewrote this perfectly fine plugin in Lua [for the Nth time] check it out" posts every day are tiring.

Re: LazyVim

#378

Post by slowmovintarget »

skydhash wrote: post #298
oblio wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Vim can be used to create config files and source code files among other things. VS Code can be used for very much the same things. The output of both tools is practically the same thing. The niche of things Vim can do and VS Code can't is tiny and constantly decreasing.

It's always been like this. Vim is an editor, and so is Sublime Text, Emacs, VS Code, Geany, Kate, Notepad++, and more. What sets vim apart is its ubiquity (it's been on every Linux box I touched) and its philosophy of editing text (modal editing). Apart from that, it's a matter of preferences and practicality.

Emacs is a lisp environment, with an editor housecoat on.

Re: LazyVim

#379

Post by tambourine_man »

p-e-w wrote: post #148
divbzero wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that expressly written to parody Vim? If so, this line is particularly spot on: > 'left' actually means right

> Was that expressly written to parody Vim? Yes. The advice to turn the yoke upside down is supposed to reference remapping Caps Lock to Escape, without which Vim destroys your pinky on a standard keyboard. But it's the choice of professionals, so what can we do?

Aaaactually… professionals map jj to Esc.

JJ Abrams disagrees, though.

Re: LazyVim

#380

Post by konart »

impalallama wrote: post #348
konart wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The amount of work needed to get a basic IDE up and running for your languages of choice, even for commonly used languages such as Python or Javascript, is far too much for someone who wants to get on with their day job or hobby coding and doesn't want to spend precious hours fixing obscure issues in Lu Can't agree with this at all. I don't think I've spent more than an hour in total setting up my vim config back in…

I’ve plugging away at NeoVim in my spare time trying to get it working and it took me a weeks before I just gave up and directly ripped someone else’s LazyVim config to finally get things working in a state I’m happy with. Never mind that in order to get modern syntax highlighting and code completion you need LSP-Server, Mason, and Null-ls. The first which has per language dependencies and the 3rd is about to be arch…

null-ls is now archived so you don't need it (dark humor). Anyway - you needed it for linting\formatting etc.

Modern syntax highlighting comes with treesitter, you don't need anything but theme that supports it.

You also don't really need Mason unless you want an automated way of managing your providers. And LSP-config+Co is needed anyway - neovim\VSCode and other editors use it all the same.

>Also I don’t know what world you live in ...

We were talking about building a config, not about learning every dark corner of it. You don't have to go much further than Packer's or LazyVim readme.md to get a grasp of what's going on. Things were much harder when it was vim and vimscript + some plugins.

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