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Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#681

Post by tikkun »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #667
tikkun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This lack of customer awareness is so interesting because all the designers in WWDC videos outline context with great labor. They forget a space is only part of an intent, and an intent is not a click or scroll. Intents demand a certain context, not the other way around - they’re scratching at old scars of starting with technology first then working to some customer experience. Could you elaborate on that? I'd like…

Every time I try to type something in response it comes out overly verbose - Basically think of what you want to achieve, it’s the intent. Then think what happens if it happened automatically, that’s the ideal context (why pills for losing weight is so enticing). Then actually try to solve the problem in tech in the best way, and then you’ll see that the intent drives what tech context is truly great - as in you’ll e…

Tell me if this is what you're saying: It'd be better if they picked a use case, e.g. consuming movies/TV shows, and designed a device around that specific goal, rather than focusing on broader capabilities. Is that kinda what you're saying?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#682

Post by sitzkrieg »

ulfw wrote: post #575
sitzkrieg wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know, i tried this first time recently. placed order at 10am. no pickup that day. ready at 1pm next day! go to store. had to wait ten minutes after i wated at the door to checkin my appt (why). whole time employees small talking me. guy finally finds my box and shoves it in my hands and i was finally free from that cursed overpriced garbagehole

> finally free from that cursed overpriced garbagehole Then why do you go there? Honestly I don't get it. If you call it names like that. There's dozens of retailers who sell the same Apple products and online websites too for quick delivery, including Apple's own.

opinions change of a place after the experience. i do not see why this is weird

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#683

Post by dcchambers »

gizajob wrote: post #464
dcchambers wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apples pricing structure is also annoying nowadays too. As soon as one specs out and bumps a laptop, one suddenly finds that they may as well get a different laptop, ie once you bump up a MacBook Air, you may as well just buy a Pro, until all of a sudden your £999 purchase idea has turned into £3000 and a debate about AppleCare. Their pricing structure on basically all of their product lines is absolutely perfect f…

Well, it's not exactly perfect because I was in the mood to simply buy a basic Air, until I was pretty well talked out of it by sales staff, so instead of an easy £1099 in the till, in their attempt to turn that into £2500, they got £0. That isn't good business. Also, the tedium of nowadays knowing that all the products will be bumped in spec in 9-12 months means that instead of excitement, buyer's remorse has alread…

I'm not even talking about salespeople upselling you in the store. I am just talking about how their product lines are priced.

For example, a maxed out MBA is just a few hundred short of a MBP. So you say to yourself, well why not just get the pro? That quickly turns into "well I can't get the base model macbook pro" and more. It's all designed so that the consumer instinctively upsells themselves before anyone in the store even tries to do so.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#684

Post by n2d4 »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #634
zmmmmm wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a totally different model of generating demand. They don't need marketing, because they have a completely captive audience of loyal apple fans who will easily saturate the first year (or even two years) of supply for this product. They are following Palmer Luckey's "Make people want it first model". Being supply limited, traditional marketing would only generate demand they can't satisfy. What they actually have…

>What they actually have to do is make sure every person who gets one has the most perfect experience possible. But they can't have the most perfect experience if the software isn't there. And there won't be enough software that actually utilises the 3D features until a sufficient number of developers get access to the device. So I agree that the strategy can work but it can also be overstretched. If expensive device…

> And there won't be enough software that actually utilises the 3D features until a sufficient number of developers get access to the device.

Judging by the keynote, Apple doesn't seem to care too much about 3D features. The Vision Pro looked more like a 360deg window manager for iOS & macOS-like apps.

And that's an entirely different niche, because suddenly it competes with desktop monitors. Focus on immersion seems to be much less than what eg. Meta is building; even the games they showed in the keynote were traditional, flat iOS games.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#685

Post by p1esk »

simiones wrote: post #610
p1esk wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will VR and AR be the future? No one doubts that. The question is whether this particular product will be successful. That’s not clear yet.

Many people absolutely doubt that. There is absolutely no reason to believe it so far - from all of my experience, both VR and AR are technically inferior to a screen in almost every way that actually matters, except for a short demo.

from all of my experience

We are talking about the future.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#686

Post by filleduchaos »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #242
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want it, but not in this form factor. Like I've been saying regarding Oculus' products for years: VR/AR isn't a bad idea, but nobody wants to strap a set of heavy, sweaty ski goggles to their face for eight hours a day. Just because the newest models are lighter/more comfortable than the old models doesn't mean they're anywhere near acceptable. I'll be passing on these until they're the size and weight of ordi…

I'll go much further than that: nobody wants to wear ANY pair of glasses. Some people do because the benefit is literally regaining one of your senses, but even if AR / VR glasses one day become like normal glasses, it will be a niche product. Nobody's wearing glasses just to get notifications and gimmicks like this. Ever. The only moment where AR / VR can maybe become mainstream is when we can send signal straight t…

I (and very many others) very much like wearing our vision-aid glasses, thanks.

There is also an entire industry of eyewear crafted and worn just to look cool (sunglasses have not primarily been a protective aid in a very long time, they're fashion accessories now).

Of course all that's orthogonal to AR/VR, but the idea that "nobody wants to wear glasses" is a bit laughable.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#687

Post by simiones »

p1esk wrote: post #685
simiones wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people absolutely doubt that. There is absolutely no reason to believe it so far - from all of my experience, both VR and AR are technically inferior to a screen in almost every way that actually matters, except for a short demo.

from all of my experience We are talking about the future.

Sure, but we need to base our predictions of the future on our experience of existing similar technologies to have any credbility.

For example, if I predicted that phones the size of a coin are the future, you could meaningfully say "in my experience, bigger phones are actually more sought after, so I don't believe your prediction".

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#688

Post by georgespencer »

smoldesu wrote: post #665
georgespencer wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you say it generically like this, it has no meaning. Among? Top 50% Here are two measures for you: 1) look at the last ten years of Consumer Reports smartphone rankings. How often is the latest iPhone ranked in the top 3? 2) look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from th…

> Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time. Sure: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Laptop-Memory-Windows/... > Apple has in fact publicly resisted repeated attempts from state and federal authorities to have it insert backdoors into iOS They have also in fact been part of NSA surveillance programs for over a decade. It's nice that Android gets out ahead of these t…

I'm happy to get into the subjective stuff you've outlined, although you're not OP, but before I do, can I just make sure you're clear on what I'm asking for on the laptop thing?

I said:

> look at the single core performance, battery life, and screen quality of the original 13" M1 MacBook Air. Now find me a laptop with commensurate performance at the same price point from that time.

1. Single core performance

It looks like the M1 which shipped in the 13" MacBook Air massively outperforms the AMD Ryzen 5 3500U[^1] on Geekbench 5 single core: 1710 vs. 707.

Am I missing something?

2. Battery life

Here's a comparison[^2] of the M1 MacBook Air with the laptop you referred to from the same publication. The M1 MacBook Air scored >29hrs on the battery rundown test: "It ran for 29 hours and 1 minute on our battery rundown test, producing one of the longest results we’ve ever recorded." The Ideapad was about 1/3rd of that at 8hrs: "Eight and a half hours away from a wall outlet isn't bad…"

Am I missing something?

3. Screen quality

The same reviews refer to the Ideapad having a "mediocre" screen. It's 1920x1080, but the resolution is only 142ppi. The M1 MacBook Air is higher resolution and higher PPI (227) and 13" not 15". The disparity in quality between them almost couldn't be starker.

Am I missing something?

Happy to talk to someone who can at least try to offer substantiation for their perspectives, but it feels like we're missing each other on this.

[^1]: https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-3500u-vs-apple-m1/geekbenc...

[^2]: https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-3-15-2021, https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-air-m1-late-2020

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#690

Post by throw47474777j »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #242
kibwen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want it, but not in this form factor. Like I've been saying regarding Oculus' products for years: VR/AR isn't a bad idea, but nobody wants to strap a set of heavy, sweaty ski goggles to their face for eight hours a day. Just because the newest models are lighter/more comfortable than the old models doesn't mean they're anywhere near acceptable. I'll be passing on these until they're the size and weight of ordi…

I'll go much further than that: nobody wants to wear ANY pair of glasses. Some people do because the benefit is literally regaining one of your senses, but even if AR / VR glasses one day become like normal glasses, it will be a niche product. Nobody's wearing glasses just to get notifications and gimmicks like this. Ever. The only moment where AR / VR can maybe become mainstream is when we can send signal straight t…

> there's no way people will be ok with other people controlling their brain

What do you think advertising and news are?

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