Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#341

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 8:58 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #177

drewg123 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had always looked at things like Oculus as a "gaming" accessory. And I demoed Google Glass about 10 years ago, and it didn't present a virtual screen. When seeing the Apple goggles, it clicked for me that this was basically a mac environment, and I started thinking how amazing it would be to run terminals in it, then I started googling for any options that were available now..

Fair but I think that's more about you being one of today's lucky 10,000 [1], than anything to do with Apple or Vision Pro :) 1 : https://xkcd.com/1053/

[deleted]

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#342

Post by hordehamhill » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #289

hordehamhill wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy. That's the power of marketing eh. Almost as soon as the DK1 was available, people were running desktop envs inside VR. 3D modelling, CAD, multiple floating desktops, watching movies videos in 3D or big fake theaters, panoramic photos... Google even had a 3D paintbrush program demo on their cardboard product half a decade or more ago. This is stuff all been explored before.

I have a Valve Index, I've tried it, the resolution is simply not good enough for it to be comfortable as a screen replacement. It (and all VR headsets before it) were simply not reaching the minimum viable product level of hardware for this use case.

And, until the resolution was good enough, your eyes were closed? You literally could not imagine what was possible until an incremental upgrade in optics occurred?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#343

Post by lostgame » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

Absolutely bizarre. My experience in Toronto buying an Apple Watch on an extremely busy day was 5-10min in and out and there was no attempt to ‘fit’ me.

Told them what they wanted, they went back and got it, they brought a POS so I could pay, I was easily out of there in 10min.

Never had any issues like this whatsoever in more than a decade of shopping at these stores?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#344

Post by CHY872 » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:02 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #232

CHY872 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my perspective: 1. Eye tracking for interaction vs hand tracking. If the UX works out, the amount of precision that can be reached is just far higher with less effort - just seems to be an easier technical problem. 2. Resolution and lensing. Most VR headsets have fairly low quality fresnel lenses which cause distortion near the edges (basically - if you want to see something in good detail, you have to tilt your…

In response to a couple of your points: (1) The HoloLens used eye tracking. It was tough to get used to but it was interesting. I didn't feel that I ever got to the point where it was more precise than moving my hand to a 3d point in space. (4) I doubt it's the headset. It's almost certainly the application the headset is running.

I do some sim racing. I can race for hours with a Reverb G2 but get nauseous within minutes with a Meta Quest Pro.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#345

Post by qqtt » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

throw47474777j wrote: post #29

gibbitz wrote: post #24

Even if they came to my house to fit me with it I wouldn't buy it. What problem is it solving for someone other than Apple? We've been seeing this AR pipe-dream for 10+ years and it hasn't caught on. Not because the technology was bad, but because people just don't want it. What Apple is missing here is that people wanted the iPhone (a phone with an iPod built in) for years before it was even officially announced as…

> Not because the technology was bad, but because people just don't want it. It’s hard to see how anyone who has been following the technology could make this claim.

Can you expand on this comment? What have you seen in the AR market that leads you to believe the comment you are responding to is not accurate?

From many observers, we have seen many AR/VR devices fail over the years. Some spectacularly (like Snap Spectacles), and some seem to be just throwing money into a furnace (like Oculus, which hasn't failed, but even with millions of devices sold doesn't seem to be reaching product market fit for anything outside of niche gaming and fitness).

Yes, the Vision Pro is a different device, but there are orthogonal attempts at this kind of screen sharing experience which also have very niche markets, like Sightful's Spacetop laptop.

I get that the Vision Pro has some product differentiation, such as the App Store, the developer ecosystem (debatable at this point compared to other AR products), and so on - but what exactly are you seeing the market today that will drive this demand for Vision Pro? Where is the evidence that customers want this technology?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#346

Post by mattmaroon » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:06 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #211

nightpool wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you also buy these products online? I'm not surprised that the in-store experience has become such a high touch affair when the customer base that would have wanted less interaction have already self-selected out by not going to the store at all

But they shouldn't assume that. I just had this exact experience because my phone was irrevocably ruined, so I needed to pick a replacement up the same day. The Apple Store was a very poor experience with a sales agent I knew more than trying, repeatedly, to explain to me things like backup, Apple Care, etc., etc. I also for some reason had to talk to four different people, and the only one that could actually help m…

I wouldn’t assume they’re assuming it, they probably have data to tell them that.

I’ve not gone into a store for an item when I already knew exactly what I want since the pandemic. Even if I need it same day I’ll buy it online and pick it up. That’s probably most people now, and they probably know it.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#347

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:08 PM UTC

vtbassmatt wrote: post #327

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

This was exactly my experience trying to buy an Apple Watch from the Apple Store just before the pandemic. I had done all the research ahead of time and knew exactly what I needed. “Do you have an appointment?” No. “Oh, it’ll be about 45 minutes before someone can help you.” But I know what I want and just need you to ring me up. “I’m sorry, 45 minutes.” Hands down the strangest retail interaction I’ve ever had. Frus…

> “Do you have an appointment?” No. “Oh, it’ll be about 45 minutes before someone can help you.”

Ah, yes, the Ferrari customer experience. You need to be selected by the manufacturer to be allowed to buy their product. It makes the product feel rare and exclusive, and the customer feel "special", when it's a consumer product made by the same Chinese sweatshop workers that make your other e-waste.

Obligatory Futurama "there might be one left":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uASUHbFEhWY

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#348

Post by graypegg » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:08 PM UTC

kkielhofner wrote: post #236

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

Was this your first Apple Watch? When I last went to an Apple Store to get a new one (while wearing my current Apple Watch) I just said “I know what I want and what I’m doing”. They handed me the box on the spot in the middle of the store and I paid with the mobile PoS terminal they carry. I was in and out in less than five minutes and this was at their very busy Chicago Michigan Avenue store. Maybe they’re that effi…

This is closer to my experience around late 2019. (Toronto Ontario Canada, at the time.)

Went in, saw someone on staff fixing up a display unit, asked if I could buy an S5 apple watch, he asked if I had any questions, I said none, tapped card on the mobile POS thing, and then in maybe 10 minutes, someone else came out, apologized for the wait, and handed me my box.

It's possible it's changed over covid though. Makes sense they would want the in-store experience to be more white-glove if they were seeing less foot traffic.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#349

Post by smoldesu » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

zinodaur wrote: post #221

BoppreH wrote: post #175

I'm very confused by Apple's strategy. As an owner of the original HTC Vive headset, its word-of-mouth power was off the charts. It was a blast at parties, and many of my friends bought their own $700+ devices after trying it. Here's what won them over: - Being able to try it themselves with little preparation ("put this on your head, tighten it here, and click these buttons on the controller"). You could even use it…

I bet they need time to ramp up their manufacturing. In the meantime - they can either artificially restrict the purchase of these things (what they are doing now), or have scalpers camp outside the stores and resell for 2-3x what apple are selling them for. If they can actually deliver on their promises - they will fucking sweep the VR market. Current VR headsets blow chunks. If the meta quest cost 10$ - people woul…

Hard disagree. Current headsets are perfectly fine for the well established use-cases like gaming and stereo/3D video. The problem is, as always, going to be shoehorning real features into a goofy form-factor. We've been down this avenue before with Hololens and it was very clear that enterprise customers aren't really interested in developing bespoke AR workflows. Even with perfect passthrough vision there wasn't any tangible benefit to the tech outside very narrow military applications (and who knows where those contracts went).

So now we're here. If Apple delivers on their promise of a very nice Oculus Quest sorta thing with iPhone apps and AppleTV+, I can't imagine people using it more than their Oculus Quest, iPhone or AppleTV.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#350

Post by alpark3 » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:15 PM UTC

I'm actually fine with the appointment setting, even if some others are bothered by the notion of an involved process. It's sort of like buying a toy anyways, so all the more fun for me to enjoy the steps of checking out.

The thing I would hate, though, is limited availability with no real way of securing a spot. Nothing more annoying than trying to find any appointment spot available and praying that the units aren't sold out. It seems that their production "numbers" are capped by supply chain difficulties, rather than raw demand. But then again, it's $3500, so maybe I won't have any trouble grabbing a headset.