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Linus torvalds on security

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Re: Linus torvalds on security

#121

Post by ewams »

huhtenberg wrote: post #22
cpswan wrote: post #4

It's funny that some of the areas that he touches on are also things where Windows requires local admin. Clearly a messed up privileged action model seems to be common across OSes.

Don't get started on Windows. Just don't. You know that UAC prompt you get when running setup.exe for an IM client? Ever wondered why there's an UAC prompt in the first place? Because Windows assumes that setup.exe needs admin privileges (unless .exe explicitly states that it doesn't). This piece of engineering doesn't even have a concept of ~/bin. In fact, there is/was an official W7 guideline that said that all pro…

Maybe we should mix Windows in: http://ewams.net/?view=Linus_Should_Use_Windows_7

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#122

Post by nessus42 »

waxjar wrote: post #111
nessus42 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a fancy restaurant, what are you doing reading Linus's Google+ posts, rather than enjoying your meal?

I think you misunderstood my analogy. My point is, that obnoxious loud talking at a restaurant is as difficult to avoid as an interesting sounding link on a major tech news aggregator.

So what you want is freedom from people expressing their opinions on their personal blogs because you're paying a lot of money for this Internet, and damnit, you should get to enjoy it?

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#123

Post by waxjar »

nessus42 wrote: post #122
waxjar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood my analogy. My point is, that obnoxious loud talking at a restaurant is as difficult to avoid as an interesting sounding link on a major tech news aggregator.

So what you want is freedom from people expressing their opinions on their personal blogs because you're paying a lot of money for this Internet, and damnit, you should get to enjoy it?

No. I never said that nor implied that.

I believe Linus can express this particular opinion in a much more civilised way (especially since he has such a special position in the tech-world), just as the restaurant guest that's talking obnoxiously loud on his telephone could talk at a normal volume.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#124

Post by nessus42 »

waxjar wrote: post #123
nessus42 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you want is freedom from people expressing their opinions on their personal blogs because you're paying a lot of money for this Internet, and damnit, you should get to enjoy it?

No. I never said that nor implied that. I believe Linus can express this particular opinion in a much more civilised way (especially since he has such a special position in the tech-world), just as the restaurant guest that's talking obnoxiously loud on his telephone could talk at a normal volume.

Where your analogy breaks down is that at a fancy restaurant, the restaurant is well within its rights to kick someone out for being disruptive--and your analogy did in fact imply that. Furthermore, if the restaurant won't do something about a disruptive customer, you really don't have much choice about the situation, unless you are willing to walk away from a significant amount of money, for which you had every reasonable expectation that you would be provided with an enjoyable and peaceful meal.

On the Internet, things are completely different. You can easily go read something else if you don't like what you are reading, and bad speech is best fought with more speech.

What I find to be most offensive are people who think that they have a right not to be offended.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#125

Post by bkirwi »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #90
javert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc. It's the same in US English I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appe…

In the professional gaming scene when you beat someone in a match you also say "I raped him hard" and nobody thinks of it as a real rape.

I'm aware of several people that have been driven away from gaming by this kind of culture. It's not as harmless as it seems from the inside, I think.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#126

Post by LinaLauneBaer »

bkirwi wrote: post #125
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the professional gaming scene when you beat someone in a match you also say "I raped him hard" and nobody thinks of it as a real rape.

I'm aware of several people that have been driven away from gaming by this kind of culture. It's not as harmless as it seems from the inside, I think.

If you say it in-game at an official tournament you may be punished for that. But casters say this from time to time without feeling bad.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#127

Post by javert »

toadi wrote: post #104
javert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on guys, this was fully intended to be a public statement and I think there are hundreds of comments on it (too lazy to check now).

In case you didn't know everything you post here is also public.

Yes.... what's your point?

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#128

Post by javert »

tygorius wrote: post #118
javert wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came back to apologize for telling you to "shut up." I don't think it was worded too too rudely and necessarily requires an apology, but that's not my style, either. I just lost a ton of karma on this (not that that matters, but it stings a bit!) and felt like a lot of people were attacking me on disingenuous grounds. Anyway, I do appreciate the apology, so thank you! Your point about depression is actually quite i…

I used to have the same view of where emotions come from. But after getting brain snapshots and diagnoses from medical doctors and a psychologist, I had to confront my personal history and conclude that habits of thought were only part of the solution. Hence the research findings that talk therapies and meds are more effective than either alone. (Not to mention that an effective therapy is one that produces a 30% sol…

This is truly fascinating. In case it's useful for anyone besides me: I searched for the article and came up with [1]. Haven't read it yet, though.

Thanks so much for being so tremendously forthcoming about what you've been through. As I'm sure can be inferred from my first response to you, yes, I'm going through a similar place, and I really appreciate your willingness to share your experiences and empathize.

[1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6063/1731

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#129

Post by javert »

VMG wrote: post #91
javert wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I've never heard that kind of thing (as in "kill yourself" not "you're a moron" - that one is par for the course among kernel hackers) said outside of Linus Torvalds, Ulrich Drepper maybe, and comedians and the like that are in an explicitly comedic situation. I realize he doesn't mean it literally. Anyway, this is just to clarify, not to argue further.

In case you are wondering: if somebody tells you to "go fuck yourself" he doesn't literally want you to do that.

If someone tells me in person to "go fuck yourself," fine, that's a normal turn of phrase in my neck of the woods. "Please kill yourself now" is going to lead to an immediate knuckle sandwich, though, unless I don't have the balls to do it. I will try to make an exception to this if it happens when I'm travelling in Europe.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#130

Post by javert »

dalke wrote: post #108
javert wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. Unless it's just an established colloquialism of everyday speech, as maybe it is for Finns. I don…

The most 'culturally accepted' form of the expression in America is to say 'hari kari' instead of 'suicide'. For two examples: Representative Joseph Cao said to BP America CEO Lamar McKay: "Mr. Stearn asked Mr. McKay to resign. In the Asian culture we do things differently. During the Samurai days, we would just give you a knife and ask you to commit Hari-Kari." Glenn Beck: "There's not enough knives. If this, if the…

It does not appear to be outside the pale to the US at large

No, you will be likely to get hurt badly if you speak to a US developer like that in person.

The reason this is tolerated for Linus and select others is because if you try to speak out about it as I did, you will get verbally raped by 800 Europeans who totally misrepresent what you said, as happened to me in this thread. (Specifically, relating it to "political correctness" and "American's can't take a joke," neither of which is the issue here; I hate political correctness, and Americans can take jokes, believe me.)

Seriously, I'd like to see Linus try that language on the street here in the US. If a bartender gave him the wrong drink and he said "Please go kill yourself now," he might have to be sent to the hopsital afterwards.

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