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Linus torvalds on security

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Re: Linus torvalds on security

#11

Post by javert »

lurker17 wrote: post #8
dirtyaura wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's more a cultural issue - no Finn would read that post as seriously as you did. Many would consider it hilarious. It's quite typical in informal Finnish way of speaking to use "dark" metaphors, and granted they come out a little bit clumsy in English, but I know a lot of Finnish coders who express themselves with similar language that Torvalds does. I remember a few incidents from my Nokia career where t…

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc.

It's the same in US English

I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appear to be this way.)

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#12

Post by javert »

mongol wrote: post #10
javert wrote: post #2

... please just kill yourself now I don't think someone who actually knows what it's like to experience suicidal thoughts would ever say something like that to people in a technical/professional context. There is something to be said for the "tough love" Linux culture, but IMO, language as extreme as what I just quoted is just not acceptable. For me, this is crossing the line from "Linus has an interesting and entert…

Yes I agree. And it is like every other quote from Linus contains similar exaggregations. I think it is his biggest weakness.

I've seen a lot of his stuff before, and nothing has "shocked" me like this did. That said, he's probably used this particular phrase a lot before, but maybe it just seemed particularly unexpected and worthless here.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#13

Post by Duff »

He is wrong about date/time setting. Most computers have automatic time sync, and consistent time stamps are important for many business purposes. Giving end users the ability to manipulate time can cause significant issues.

Is it overkill for Linus's kids? Yes. But OpenSUSE wasn't put together for his kids.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#14

Post by AndresNavarro »

lurker17 wrote: post #8
dirtyaura wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's more a cultural issue - no Finn would read that post as seriously as you did. Many would consider it hilarious. It's quite typical in informal Finnish way of speaking to use "dark" metaphors, and granted they come out a little bit clumsy in English, but I know a lot of Finnish coders who express themselves with similar language that Torvalds does. I remember a few incidents from my Nokia career where t…

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

I don't think it's the same in US English, I think the parent is right. Here in Buenos Aires one can say "kill yourself" (which would be "matate" in the rioplatense dialect of Spanish) for almost anything and nobody would bat an eye. In English, it sounds/looks pretty harsh, at least to my non native ears/eyes.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#15

Post by pavanky »

lurker17 wrote: post #8
dirtyaura wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's more a cultural issue - no Finn would read that post as seriously as you did. Many would consider it hilarious. It's quite typical in informal Finnish way of speaking to use "dark" metaphors, and granted they come out a little bit clumsy in English, but I know a lot of Finnish coders who express themselves with similar language that Torvalds does. I remember a few incidents from my Nokia career where t…

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

That is his personal Google+ profile. I am not sure if he would ask people to kill themselves (even if he is harsh) in a mailing list or other open forums..

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#16

Post by alextgordon »

Duff wrote: post #13

He is wrong about date/time setting. Most computers have automatic time sync, and consistent time stamps are important for many business purposes. Giving end users the ability to manipulate time can cause significant issues. Is it overkill for Linus's kids? Yes. But OpenSUSE wasn't put together for his kids.

I think you may have misread.

> I first spent weeks arguing on a bugzilla that the security policy of requiring the root password for changing the timezone

The time zone is a completely presentational setting, something that users can be expected to want to change every so often. And it has no relation to timestamps.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#17

Post by jlawer »

javert wrote: post #2

... please just kill yourself now I don't think someone who actually knows what it's like to experience suicidal thoughts would ever say something like that to people in a technical/professional context. There is something to be said for the "tough love" Linux culture, but IMO, language as extreme as what I just quoted is just not acceptable. For me, this is crossing the line from "Linus has an interesting and entert…

As someone who has had professional help to go through what I will only refer to as "the dark patch of my life" I think your over reacting. This might be a cultural thing but as an Aussie, this is viewed as pure exaggeration and has NO connection to reality. If there is no connection to reality then why get upset about it? If there is no intention for a slight then why care?

Maybe this is one of the subtle cultural differences, but surely you agree it isn't fair to judge someone on your own cultural standard on the internet over something simple as a few words? If your truely offended by him, just ignore him.

In my mind the conversation is richer if we don't need to be so careful about dropping to the "Lowest Common denominator". Let there be colour, excitement, rants and exaggeration. In the end I think it helps understand people more then putting on the facade of beige that so many politically correct people insist on.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#19

Post by beatle »

alextgordon wrote: post #16
Duff wrote: post #13

He is wrong about date/time setting. Most computers have automatic time sync, and consistent time stamps are important for many business purposes. Giving end users the ability to manipulate time can cause significant issues. Is it overkill for Linus's kids? Yes. But OpenSUSE wasn't put together for his kids.

I think you may have misread. > I first spent weeks arguing on a bugzilla that the security policy of requiring the root password for changing the timezone The time zone is a completely presentational setting, something that users can be expected to want to change every so often. And it has no relation to timestamps.

Changing time zones can fuck up a server application.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#20

Post by jlawer »

javert wrote: post #11
lurker17 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc. It's the same in US English I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appe…

That dark and exaggerated sense of humour is common at least amongst Brits, Irish, Aussies & Kiwis.

However I wouldn't say it isn't in the US. Most Boston & some New York stand-up comedians I have seen seem to have a similar personality. Maybe this is self selecting, but the US comedians I have seen from these areas tend to have that same personality.

I really don't think this is a big deal..

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