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Linus torvalds on security

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Re: Linus torvalds on security

#101

Post by jnazario »

vacri wrote: post #98
jnazario wrote: post #48

every now and then linus peeks in at what passes for linux, freaks out, gets pissed off at the state of things, vents, and everyone chimes in. so i'll chime in. this is what you get when you are laissez-faire about how things operate in the land you helped create and ignore issues (via guidance and suggestions) for years on end. this happened with wifi some years ago, too, and didn't get attention until linus got a l…

Why is a kernel dictator responsible for the userspace? what genuine authority does Torvalds have over gnome or kde? It's not Torvalds' responsibility, implied or otherwise, to manage what kind of password userspace requires for setting config settings.

linus is notoriously opposed to security, calling the security community various names over the years. the capabilities exposed by the kernel have direct impact on userland. if security isn't a priority for linus and is left to third parties, then you wind up with all sorts of stuff that is the ecosystem we have today. some is great, some is awful.

without attention and respect from the guy in charge of the kernel, which gates security for the system, this is what you get.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#102

Post by toadi »

javert wrote: post #31
jlawer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That dark and exaggerated sense of humour is common at least amongst Brits, Irish, Aussies & Kiwis. However I wouldn't say it isn't in the US. Most Boston & some New York stand-up comedians I have seen seem to have a similar personality. Maybe this is self selecting, but the US comedians I have seen from these areas tend to have that same personality. I really don't think this is a big deal..

I'm not talking about comedians, for pete sake. I'm talking about software development in a professional context.

Is a google plus posting proffesional context. He didn't like how suse implemented it and then flames bigotted secrutiy people in general.

don't see any personal attack.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#103

Post by toadi »

tomp wrote: post #86
batista wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. I did. Have you? Definition #2 from Mirriam-Webster: "something not to be taken seriously". Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. You k…

> lots of cultures the world over think political correctness itself as silly and/or prudish. Kudos to that. I find it hilarious, and very sad at the same time, that Americans can't say policeman/policewoman any more, and that they have at least 4, maybe more, words for for different values of "fat" (overweight, fat, obese, morbidly obese, ...). In Slovenia, one is just fat, maybe very fat. Making a big deal out of i…

Maybe they need to be politically correct because in some state they carry guns. Don't want to offend someone who's carrying one ;)

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#104

Post by toadi »

javert wrote: post #72
beedogs wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently people in the public eye are not allowed to have personal opinions.

Come on guys, this was fully intended to be a public statement and I think there are hundreds of comments on it (too lazy to check now).

In case you didn't know everything you post here is also public.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#105

Post by sjwright »

trevi wrote: post #97

He is spot on, but I find (and always found) his wording way too aggressive. Makes it kind of hard to have a constructive discussion on the topic, which by the way really needs such discussion.

It's also kind of hard to have a constructive discussion on the topic if nobody takes notice. Without the invectives, it probably wouldn't have been noteworthy enough to spread like wildfire across the hacker sphere.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#106

Post by yitchelle »

Why is it news when Linus mention something so obviously frustrating as the security scheme is on OpenSUSE?

Would it make a difference if s/Linus/JoeBlog/ mentioned it if the issue is so frustrating?

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#107

Post by dpcx »

yitchelle wrote: post #106

Why is it news when Linus mention something so obviously frustrating as the security scheme is on OpenSUSE? Would it make a difference if s/Linus/JoeBlog/ mentioned it if the issue is so frustrating?

It's all about the perceived level of intelligence related to the field. It'd be no different than Rand Paul making a fuss about budgets versus Joe Blog.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#108

Post by dalke »

javert wrote: post #39
batista wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not supposed to elicit laughs; it's supposed to emphasize his point. Of course, I know that. Not all jokes are there to elicit laughs --unless one is a clown or a stand-up comedian. It's a joke in the sense that it's not meant seriously. As, in, if somebody DID kill himself following his advice, Linus would be genuinely upset, sad, and most of all surprised.

You need to look up the definition of "joke" before you insult Americans in general and call them "9 year olds" based on an incorrect usage of that term. Telling someone to commit suicide, even if not meant literally, because of a technical disagreement, should not be (in my opinion) considered acceptable in any culture. Unless it's just an established colloquialism of everyday speech, as maybe it is for Finns. I don…

The most 'culturally accepted' form of the expression in America is to say 'hari kari' instead of 'suicide'. For two examples:

Representative Joseph Cao said to BP America CEO Lamar McKay: "Mr. Stearn asked Mr. McKay to resign. In the Asian culture we do things differently. During the Samurai days, we would just give you a knife and ask you to commit Hari-Kari."

Glenn Beck: "There's not enough knives. If this, if the IPCC had been done by Japanese scientists, there's not enough knives on planet Earth for hara-kiri that should have occurred. I mean, these guys have so dishonored themselves, so dishonored scientists."

I believe the difference is that, in the US, suicide has a strong association with moral and internal failings, while 'hari kari' is associated with honor despite external failure.

In either case, and as you rightly point out, this is your own opinion. It does not appear to be outside the pale to the US at large, else the above two quotes would have been major reports.

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#109

Post by [deleted] »

vacri wrote: post #94
javert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your speculation on and advice about my mental health is rude and insulting. I'm not merely "tut-tutting". I don't think telling people to commit suicide because of a legitimate technical disagrement or hurdle is acceptable. If you disagree, put up a reasoned argument or shut up.

Your speculation on and advice about my mental health is rude and insulting. vs For me, this is crossing the line from "Linus has an interesting and entertaining character" to "this person seems to be mentally disturbed." That's a nice trick you have there, where you're allowed to be rude and insulting about a person's mental state while taking offense at anyone doing the same to you. You strike me as the kind of per…

[deleted]

Re: Linus torvalds on security

#110

Post by weff »

lurker17 wrote: post #8
dirtyaura wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's more a cultural issue - no Finn would read that post as seriously as you did. Many would consider it hilarious. It's quite typical in informal Finnish way of speaking to use "dark" metaphors, and granted they come out a little bit clumsy in English, but I know a lot of Finnish coders who express themselves with similar language that Torvalds does. I remember a few incidents from my Nokia career where t…

It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation. For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitrioli…

I guess you could also reverse the idea: if someone is offended by every cultural difference, maybe one should refrain from... living in a multi-cultural world?

What is "public consumption" anyway? I don't want to have everyone communicating through death threats but I also want even less for everyone to sound like a PR representative.

Maybe the solution is to simply understand the cultural differences?

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