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Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

claudioholanda.ch

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Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#161

Post by Capricorn2481 »

wg0 wrote: post #59
davej wrote: post #45

We have recently moved our website[1] to SvelteKit. Previously we were on Sapper. Previous to that we used a custom Webpack + React setup to output a static site. Our desktop app builder is also built on Svelte (not SvelteKit). I agree with pretty much everything in this article. I wouldn't put "Reactive declarations and statements" in the "Ugly" section though. They are definitely a bit tougher to fully grok than th…

I don't want people preaching hooks as the greatest invention since fire talks anyways. Such code if spotted anywhere in a backend would be slammed for being horrendous and violating almost any intuition definition of maintainable code. The svelte documentation is already great. This evengleism is good for commercial products. For technical open source, subjective evaluation is all that is needed. You evaluate whethe…

Rich Harris is definitely not a humble guy. He pretty much can't talk about Svelte without framing it as the savior to modern web. And I would say some of the things he pushes are blatantly false

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#162

Post by Capricorn2481 »

devbent wrote: post #156
hbbio wrote: post #6

As the author states, ... Svelte Stores are rough. Beyond just missing usage patterns and documentation, we found that several features are lacking, especially when used with native reactivity (`$:`). Another area lacking is TypeScript support. Our frontend codebase at OKcontract is implemented with Svelte, but we had to build some low-level libraries (including a wholly new implementation of Stores) to make it worth…

What is wrong with svelte stores? I've found them to be incredibly powerful and much easier than dealing with redux.

They are zustand/context with extra steps

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#163

Post by theironhammer »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #126
sph wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then there's "I build one web app in my life. Typescript is the best thing ever." And us greybeards: "I have built 50 different web apps across 20 years and I'd rather poke my eyes than work on client-side Javascript again. No, your new framework isn't any better."

Then there's "I've been writing frontends since Javascript was a thing and I think developing for the frontend with anything but Typescript is more effort than its worth and a little bit ridiculous, but maybe I'll give something with WASM a try when it's more mature"

If you're a Rust programmer Leptos looks pretty intriguing. It uses Signals like SolidJS.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#164

Post by Capricorn2481 »

bavell wrote: post #79
Tade0 wrote: post #61

> Reactive declarations and statements feel like powerful magic, and they are, but it’s very easy to hurt yourself by writing code that is almost impossible to debug, That's interesting, because one thing I'd discovered in Svelte, which I didn't even dream of seeing ever again was a legible stack trace. It literally goes all the way down to the very change that caused all the mayhem. > Svelte’s lack of protagonism I…

Full stack dev going on a decade here. Stack traces and errors in React are pretty awful, fully agree there. I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? Frontend sure, but react specifically? It's just a tool, nothing to get ideological or bent out of shape over. Couldn't give a shit what Abramov says beyond what is useful in my day-to-day. There are probably a lot of junior d…

I feel like there is much more hate towards people using React than hype for React itself.

I agree that hooks are great, but a lot of people disagree and claim it's overly complex.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#165

Post by waboremo »

zdragnar wrote: post #133
pcthrowaway wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like how JSX is actually JSXScript, sure

JSX is, imho, more akin to a macro; the syntax is replaced with simple expressions. Technically, the JSX syntax isn't even necessary to use React, though most people prefer it. Svelte bakes itself fully into your code in a way that you can't do without the compiler and still be using svelte.

JSX is necessary to use React otherwise you create even more footguns in a library that's littered with them.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#166

Post by ralphc »

efields wrote: post #94

I really appreciated this article. No framework is perfect. Svelte always looked like the right approach for a modern component framework, but modern Vue borrowed a lot of its better ideas and ran with it.

Could you give an example of this or point to an article that does so? I feel the pull between "framework I'd most want to use (svelte)" vs "framework that is more popular, more docs, more devs (vue)". If Vue is getting more Svelte goodness that's a consideration.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#167

Post by ozten »

katzgrau wrote: post #72

> After several meetings, we came to the conclusion that the best approach was to simply halt the old website development and build a new one from scratch using the best technologies and practices. Spoken like a true developer. Trash the old system, reinvent the wheel, prioritize the delight of the devs, leave the client with something that is totally obsolete and nobody else knows how to work on in a couple of years…

They mention that the legacy system was scaled vertically and expensive. Sometimes a complete re-write makes sense.

Some companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for terrible CMS websites. I've seen this situation 3 times in my career and for all three a re-write was the best long term option when balancing all the pros and cons.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#168

Post by cassepipe »

zdragnar wrote: post #133
pcthrowaway wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like how JSX is actually JSXScript, sure

JSX is, imho, more akin to a macro; the syntax is replaced with simple expressions. Technically, the JSX syntax isn't even necessary to use React, though most people prefer it. Svelte bakes itself fully into your code in a way that you can't do without the compiler and still be using svelte.

So you're saying that svelte does not just transpiles to js/css/html ? Could you expand on that a bit more ?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#169

Post by amadeuspagel »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

I love svelte, but how is it minimalist? How is requiring a compiler for a web app minimalist?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#170

Post by efields »

ralphc wrote: post #166
efields wrote: post #94

I really appreciated this article. No framework is perfect. Svelte always looked like the right approach for a modern component framework, but modern Vue borrowed a lot of its better ideas and ran with it.

Could you give an example of this or point to an article that does so? I feel the pull between "framework I'd most want to use (svelte)" vs "framework that is more popular, more docs, more devs (vue)". If Vue is getting more Svelte goodness that's a consideration.

Not really, but the single file component (SFC) patterns I liked so much in Svelte when I first looked at it are now in Vue: https://vuejs.org/api/sfc-css-features.html#scoped-css

If it's a couple folks and you work well together and you want to use Svelte, I'd use svelte. If it's a larger team or a large project that will be iterated on for quite a while, probably Vue. I like Vue quite a lot more than React at this point.

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