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Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

claudioholanda.ch

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Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#111

Post by wildrhythms »

hbbio wrote: post #6

As the author states, ... Svelte Stores are rough. Beyond just missing usage patterns and documentation, we found that several features are lacking, especially when used with native reactivity (`$:`). Another area lacking is TypeScript support. Our frontend codebase at OKcontract is implemented with Svelte, but we had to build some low-level libraries (including a wholly new implementation of Stores) to make it worth…

Can you elaborate on lacking typescript support in stores?

interface Book {...}

export const selectedBook = writable(null);

Works fine.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#112

Post by yunohn »

onion2k wrote: post #41
Kiro wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean?

It means that library maintainers are having to make changes to their libraries to get them to work on the serverside, and a lot of them aren't not really doing that very quickly.Consequently moving to RSC reduces the number of libraries that work with your React code. It's a short term problem because most popular libraries will get updated eventually, but some won't and they'll only ever work on the client side. In…

But that doesn’t mean React will /break/ existing libraries? It’s just a new feature that they need to start supporting, as you described.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#113

Post by DigitalSea »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

One of the exact reasons I've been working with Aurelia as my Javascript framework of choice since 2015. Aurelia 1 has served me well and I have apps that have been in production for eight years untouched. They just keep running without fail and they're so simple. Similarly, Aurelia 2 (currently in beta) is even better and as stable (same templating syntax, DI, etc). I tend to avoid all of the hype in the front-end space. The only thing clients and companies care about at the end of the day are results.

- Simple syntax

- Convention over configuration, but gives you the ability to configure it when you need too

- Standards compliance

- Has state management, routing, validation, Fetch client and translation packages

- Completely written in TypeScript, so everything is strongly typed

- Great docs

- HTML templating syntax is standards compliant, so everything looks similar to native HTML. None of this weird curly, banana in a box, square bracket and weird symbol nonsense that is not intuitive.

People always ask, "Why not React?", "Why not Vue?", "Why not Svelte?", etc. People think you need to use the most popular option like it's a popularity contest. I find it laughable to build a React application in 2023 you don't just `npm install react`, people tell you to use something like Next.js which is a framework built on React (the very thing developers tried arguing for years you didn't need to build apps and that libraries were enough). I can guarantee that most of the people in this comments section either tried Aurelia years ago when it was v1 or have never heard of it. Then you would have some that won't use it because it's not big or popular enough.

I can build an app using Aurelia faster than most developers could using React or any other convoluted framework or library. Even Vue used to be nice and basic, before Vue 3 where they decided they would become React Lite and introduce complexity in the way you build things because everyone bought into the myth everything has to be functions and classes are bad.

At the end of the day the safest strategy is to use what works for you and ignore everything else.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#114

Post by WuxiFingerHold »

zygo wrote: post #66

I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.

>> but decreased drastically as the project grew

I'm curious why?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#115

Post by throwaway290 »

impulser_ wrote: post #49

I never built a web app in my life. I have always been on the server side. Recently I spent a couple days building the same web app in Next, Nuxt, and SvelteKit just to get a feel of how to build a web app today. The web app was pretty basic. A couple of pages showing data from different apis and auth with user setting page. My favorite by far was SvelteKit despite being the one with the smaller community. It was act…

Ease of building from scratch and long term maintainability are different concerns and maintainability can require higher complexity at first.

Eg. I would say involving TypeScript 100% loses at ease of building something simple quickly but with some experience I would not start a significant project without it anymore.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#116

Post by chasd00 »

mozey wrote: post #55
graftak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all fun and games until you work on a platform that requires dynamically loaded modules, error boundaries and suspense (or another form of components loading their own data) and then the no-nonsense approach falls flat. It is easy to put your nose up towards bloated frameworks when you’re doing small (static) stuff but as soon as you need the bloat you’re just reinventing a wobbly wheel without one. There’s a…

> dynamically loaded modules, error boundaries In an MPA, modules https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guid... can be included on the pages that require them with a script tag. Errors (and new features) are limited to a specific page, and the rest of the site remains unchanged. > suspense (or another form of components loading their own data) The htmx lib https://htmx.org/ mostly takes care of this…

doesn't the csp issue in htmx basically make it a non-starter for most applications? maybe that's been fixed somehow..

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#117

Post by fud101 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #10

You need very strong argument not to take the most popular technologies these days. I don’t hear any arguments against react here strong enough to justify not choosing VueJS or React. It’s not in the interests of your client.

how does vuejs belong in the same sentence as React and popular?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#118

Post by papito »

EnragedParrot wrote: post #104
papito wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…

This sounds like a symptom of you falling behind the technology curve more than a problem with the technology curve. Most people are achieving vastly more with newer tech than ever could have been done in the early 2000s. You've gotta be looking through some densely rose colored glasses if you think that that the web in the 2000s was just as powerful as the web of today.

I resisted learning a lot of it knowing that there will be a snap-back to simpler designs long-term, and it's happening now.

And when I tried, it went nowhere. After months of work on my side project with Electron, Typescript, and Vue, I was in the same place because every time I opened IntelliJ, it seemed all of my effort went into just having it build again.

Now I chose ArrowJS for my project, and it's been a delight. Look, I get it, but I would refrain from accusing the other person of laziness in this case.

Learnings from 5 years of tech startup code audits: https://kenkantzer.com/learnings-from-5-years-of-tech-startu...

The very first two points prove that it's not just me.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#119

Post by IshKebab »

sph wrote: post #89
Graffur wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never built a web app in my life. > I would highly suggest people to try SvelteKit. I feel like this is a good summary of tech trends these days.

Then there's "I build one web app in my life. Typescript is the best thing ever." And us greybeards: "I have built 50 different web apps across 20 years and I'd rather poke my eyes than work on client-side Javascript again. No, your new framework isn't any better."

Typescript is very different to Javascript (and it isn't a framework). But I get your point.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#120

Post by pcthrowaway »

10xDev wrote: post #103
ravenstine wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[removed]

Reactive declarations that work using syntax outside of JS thanks to the compiler does make it a bit more than just JS. https://twitter.com/youyuxi/status/1057291776724271104

Kind of like how JSX is actually JSXScript, sure
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