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Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

claudioholanda.ch

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Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#121

Post by andsoitis »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

> you can't code anything without async

I'd like to understand what you mean by this. As soon as you introduce network requests in a system, don't you need to deal with asynchrony?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#122

Post by [deleted] »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

[deleted]

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#123

Post by RamblingCTO »

cageface wrote: post #87
sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

I like Svelte but I’m not sure I’d describe it as “minimalist”. It’s a new language with its own compiler and reactivity system.

Yeah, I did a project in sveltekit + go and then one in htmx, alpinejs + golang. Sveltekit is quite big and not low maintenance.

Not sure what exact use case sveltekit would be good for, that can't be solved with htmx + alpinejs.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#124

Post by papito »

EnragedParrot wrote: post #105
gpderetta wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have. The fact that setting up your dev env takes such complex rituals and incantations that need to be prepacked in a spellbook is itself a red flag.

A well-tooled development environment takes minutes to set up.

A well-tooled environment does not just spring out of an ether. Maintaining proper tooling in a distributed system often requires more work than the system itself. In a lot of cases, the business does not even consider this kind of time commitment, pushing the team to churn out features, and who eventually just bog down in insane complexity.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#125

Post by andsoitis »

Buttons840 wrote: post #82
Graffur wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never built a web app in my life. > I would highly suggest people to try SvelteKit. I feel like this is a good summary of tech trends these days.

A beginner suggesting something to try seems fine to me. They have something no amount of study can give, a fresh perspective.

> A beginner suggesting something to try seems fine to me. They have something no amount of study can give, a fresh perspective.

When the beginner's critique of the competition is that it felt dirty: Next was my least favorite mostly due to the syntax and how you had to build the application. I really didn't like the whole style of Next and React. Just felt dirty.

.... then I don't know that I trust their suggestion.

More importantly, technologies like programming languages and frameworks tend to shine at different levels of app size and complexity. Novice building a demo app says nothing about how the developer experience and code complexity will scale as you evolve your app or add more developers to the team.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#126

Post by pcthrowaway »

sph wrote: post #89
Graffur wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never built a web app in my life. > I would highly suggest people to try SvelteKit. I feel like this is a good summary of tech trends these days.

Then there's "I build one web app in my life. Typescript is the best thing ever." And us greybeards: "I have built 50 different web apps across 20 years and I'd rather poke my eyes than work on client-side Javascript again. No, your new framework isn't any better."

Then there's "I've been writing frontends since Javascript was a thing and I think developing for the frontend with anything but Typescript is more effort than its worth and a little bit ridiculous, but maybe I'll give something with WASM a try when it's more mature"

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#127

Post by [deleted] »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

[deleted]

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#128

Post by tgtweak »

I don't agree at all with the fact that productivity is that far ahead on svelte - much of the react productivity lift is with the extensive support from other libraries and platforms.

The point about it being more efficient in terms of performance certainly rings true but to claim that it's 2x as productive (twice as fast to get something out in svelte) than react, to the extent you've graphed it in the introduction, is a fabrication. I've seen 2 year old actively-developed svelte projects with so much shimming baked in to support common components that the dev teams essentially have their own toolkits just to work with it. That is not what I would consider 2x as productive. It is an age-old paradigm of "less features = quicker" that at some level of required complexity does invert.

It's not a static "this is universally faster" equation.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#129

Post by kubb »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

why not just use pure typescript + postgres + go/java? all these libraries bloat your app for no good reason

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#130

Post by stephenhuey »

DigitalSea wrote: post #113
sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

One of the exact reasons I've been working with Aurelia as my Javascript framework of choice since 2015. Aurelia 1 has served me well and I have apps that have been in production for eight years untouched. They just keep running without fail and they're so simple. Similarly, Aurelia 2 (currently in beta) is even better and as stable (same templating syntax, DI, etc). I tend to avoid all of the hype in the front-end s…

2015 was when I used Aurelia, too. As someone who used the first version of Angular, it was a breath of fresh air, and I agree that you can get results quickly using Aurelia. I left that company so haven't been using it, but I've secretly hoped people would catch on and switch to it somewhere down the road. But as you say, it's fine that it's not popular--quite often, the best things are not the popular things.
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