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GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

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Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#261
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is power. It is simply a power grab where people invent new language and initialisms intending to claim ownership and control of them and use them as a tool to, like you say, exclude people. DI became DEI became DEIB in less than a decade. They are working on new initials as we speak, to confuse and demoralize anyone who opposes this make-it-up-as-we-go-along sophistry. Inventing all of this language infrast…

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It’s really ok to not share every thought that happens to pop into your head.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there was a time, not too long ago, when it was very obvious to everyone that the Internet and the real world were not the same thing, and it was plain as day that the inherent disparities that exist between cyberspace and meatspace (e.g., on the Internet, nobody can tell what sex/race/sexual orientation/religion/etc. you are, unless you go out of your way to tell them) should necessitate different social norms.

Frankly, that was always a fallacy. Who you are in "real life" very much affects who you are, and what you are capable of, and how you are impacted by what you experience on-line. Anonymity works in very limited circumstances. It quickly becomes pathological over the long-term. Sure, social norms need to adapt to the circumstances and the context, but the fundamentals of kindness, respect, integrity, and the need for…

when I was in middle school (2004-ish?), I collaborated on a video game development project with four other dudes I met online, two of whom I became close friends with. we all knew the project leader was Australian because he told us as much, because he insisted we spell "armour" with a "u", and because of the times of day he was online. it was easy to infer that the rest of us were North American, but it wasn't until months and months of IMing back and forth that I came to learn that one of the other guys, the one whom I was closest with, was black. it just never came up in conversation, until he was explaining some personal anecdote to me in private and it was contextually appropriate. why would it? we were five dorky middle/high schoolers who enjoyed video games and learning to create them together, and we only knew each other by our handles, and, later, our given names. why would we talk about what color of skin we had? nothing could be less relevant to a bunch of kids who were eagerly doing collaborative creative work together, across the globe, through the magic of the Internet.

this is not to say that one shouldn't be open with who they are in real life, when projecting themselves on the Internet, but, rather, to show that, just a couple short decades ago, it was far less popular to do this than it is now. Internet users were usernames, avatars, and forum sigs, and perhaps a personal webpage (which was highly unlikely to reveal much about one's real-life identity, either). that's all you had to go on at the base level, and then, from there, it was one's actions that influenced others' opinions of them, as opposed to anything having to do with one's real-life physical or demographic characteristics.

it was so cool, man, let me tell you. it felt like being on the brink of a glorious cyber-libertarian future, where all manner of real-life bigotry could be nonexistent, because it was useless, because nobody knew anything about anyone else, because we were interacting with cyber-avatars of each other first and foremost, only getting to know the real meatspace people behind the cyber-avatar after becoming friends with them, through shared purpose and/or interest. especially after learning that this dude I was interacting with, teaching, learning from, making stuff with, for months, online, was black, it was just so exciting, because one got the feeling that perhaps this Internet thing could truly be a force of good in the world—if everyone became used to interacting with these raceless sexless ideology-less cyber-avatars on this Internet thing, then perhaps, gradually, real-world bigotry would be phased out, as it would largely be useless in this new realm of cyberspace.

but then Facebook, Twitter, etc. came to be, the iPhone was released, and normies became connected to the Internet 24/7. then, as if that wasn't bad enough, the modern idea of identity politics cropped up mysteriously right around the time the #Occupy was gaining steam. then in 2013—a decade ago now—Donglegate happened, and it became clear to me that the cyber-libertarian dream of an utterly meritocratic, bigotry-free Internet, full of all kinds of weird and cool people coming together to share interests and make weird and cool stuff together and share said weird and cool stuff with the rest of the world, was most certainly long since dead.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#263
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me there are two basic types of people - those that think: > Being hateful, insulting, or otherwise offensive is not a big deal if we can still work along. and those that think: > I can't work along somebody who is hateful, insulting, or otherwise offensive. I'm not sure either group is completely right, but it seems that being nicer would solve this whole problem...

It seems that mediation would be a good thing. Yet we never hear about that, even in "progressive" workplaces that are all about Diversity, Inclusion, Equity & all the other keywords. It's remarkable - your supervisor behaves in an increasingly unhinged manner towards you, and you go look for informal conflict resolution and none is to be had. Yes, there is a code of conduct, there is the diversitylady, but no way of…

Aren't the "diversitylady" and the committees supposed to be the mediators during conflicts between 2 people? Can you guarantee that you'd be happy with those mediators, and won't just request another level of mediation?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#264
post #55

This will surely be the first time a CoC changes any community for the better. /s Nobody cares about a CoC and people will do what they will regardless of what the CoC says.

> Nobody cares about a CoC

Totally, that's why no one is whining about it in this thread.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#265

The only effect of a Code of Conduct I have ever personally witnessed was that people were being bullied for greeting others. The greeting they used was "hey guys", and instead of recognizing that language is fluid and different to different people they tried to impose their linguistic views on others. The people who encouraged this behavior were people on the Code of Conduct committee and at the top of the project's…

Can you provide more details? I’ve been working on open source projects for about a decade now, including years of professional work, and I have never seen or heard someone chastised for using “guys” informally. This includes in communities with established, formal codes of conduct. It strikes me as something that most people wouldn’t even notice , unless the speaker was intentionally using it in a way that implies g…

On my work's slack, we have a bot that says (I'm paraphrasing) "please use folks, as guys is exclusionary/gendered etc".

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#266
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, people act like they want to treat everyone's work independent until some personal event comes up. I had to get attacked for a joke I put on social media before I realized how insane CoCs on voluntary work are.

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but this is another time on this very same post where I've seen this expressed: > I was indifferent/supportive of CoCs until it was used against me over some trivial thing How can we avoid needing to get to that point?

You simply can't. CoC's are charter for enforcing moral ideals in a context that none of it should matter.

The whole CoC is a project of an ideology that is categorically against merit and competence and in favour of identity politics.

To see these CoC's in terms of specific rules is missing the forest for the trees.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#267
post #87

Possibly a big mistake to make this post, but I've written my own code of conduct template, which I use on my projects (mostly since snyk, github and similar scanners rank you down if you don't have it). https://github.com/ltworf/international_code_of_conduct/blob...

That's the first sensible code of conduct I have ever read :)

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide more details? I’ve been working on open source projects for about a decade now, including years of professional work, and I have never seen or heard someone chastised for using “guys” informally. This includes in communities with established, formal codes of conduct. It strikes me as something that most people wouldn’t even notice , unless the speaker was intentionally using it in a way that implies g…

The dbt slack community has a bot that says > Hi! Reminder: “guys” is an inherently gendered term. Great alternatives include “everyone”, “folks”, “team”, "friends" or “y’all”. Thank you for helping us build a more inclusive community! The only thing that really bothers me personally about this is the mistaken idea that language can be "inherently" anything. The meaning of a term varies based on usage, it is not inhe…

You're entitled to an opinion about it, but a Slack bot that pings you when you say "guys" is not remotely comparable to bullying (which is the top-level claim in this thread).

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it was white people bullying people from all over the planet only made it worse.

I've noticed that white people as a group regularly get abuse in anti-woke HN threads. Seems bizarre to me. I guess it is some kind of "gotcha", intended to undermine "woke" people but it seems a bit self-defeating. "White people are so racist they're even racist when they're trying to be non-racist" seems more woke than anti-woke to me, but that doesn't seem to be the intention.

My pet theory is that most 'woke' people are people that feel ashamed at not being at the bottom of the hierarchy, and so try to compensate their 'privileges' by being overly sensitive to any kind of injustice, to the point of seeing moral or symbolic violence where there is none.

And since the negative discourse (e.g. saying "Women face so many issue in the workplace" as a man) is way more socially palatable than a positive one (saying "Women have it OK now in the workplace" as a man), people who try to be sensible about thing not directly concerning them tend to overdo it by amplifying the "everything is bad" angle.

Which is why at the height of the BLM movements, lots of well-meaning (but IMO severely misguided) people felt that 'master' or 'blacklist' were carriers of oppression, while not thinking twice about words such as 'white noise' or 'white-label' (Implying that a lack of creativity or panache is associated with whiteness, the horror!), The former was among white 'wokes' sensibility-by-proxy, while for the latter the same crowd had the experience and tool to know this argument is bonker, and that anyone having issue with the expression 'white noise' has mental issue.

I came to this conclusion after a gay/muslim friend of mine, who likes to do humoristic quizzes on Instagram did one for the Ramadan. He asked "Apart from Ramadan, what are the other 4 pillars of Islam", and accepted the Ru Paul reference "Creativity, Uniqueness, Nerves and Talent" as the answer. The only people taking issue with that were non-muslim white french dudes who felt it was islamophobic, which greatly annoyed my friend, who felt it feed into the stereotypes of "angry muslim".

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#270
What I don't get, sorry for my own reductive attitude, is that if you volunteer for one of these projects you're working for free. If you don't like terms of project, just don't work for free?

Kind of like reddit moderator situation atm

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