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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#751

Post by Alupis »

recursive wrote: post #533
Alupis wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is obvious though, isn't it? Our current infrastructure simply cannot handle a ton of EV's all wanting to charge up all day long - as is done currently with gas stations all over the country. It'll take decades to bring our infrastructure up to where it needs to be to support this - yet people act like we're already there. Some states still struggle just to keep the lights on during major parts of the yea…

It's only the highest peaks of demand that cause problems for the grid. EV charging, on average, is one of the least time sensitive loads there is. People charge in the middle of the night when its cheap.

> People charge in the middle of the night when its cheap.

Why is it cheap in the middle of the night? Because there's near zero demand.

Fast forward 10 years and everyone has 1-2 EV's to charge each night. Is there zero demand still? No... and now it's expensive to charge at night.

People really need to be realistic about these things. Pretending these issues do not exist only harms EV adoption. People buy expensive EV's and find out it's a major PITA to keep it running, it's expensive to charge, it takes forever to charge, etc.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#752

Post by amluto »

panick21_ wrote: post #85
amluto wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s incentives. If Tesla chargers break and stay broken, then Tesla owners get mad. (And Tesla chargers seem to break or malfunction with some regularity — they’re not indestructible. But they get fixed, and there are always more than one or two chargers at a site.) The third party chargers don’t seem to act like they have a reputation to uphold. Also, I’m not convinced they’re even really motivated to have…

> The third party chargers don’t seem to act like they have a reputation to uphold. Also, I’m not convinced they’re even really motivated to have people use their stations. They do care but technology is unforgiving. Tesla is many iterations into improving their station reliability, they are vertically integrated and their station are very simple. The production volume is far, far higher leading to improve quality. T…

> Their stations are much more complex, with screens and so on. So the failure rate is far higher and repair is much more difficult.

Gas stations are far more complex, and they manage just fine, with substantially higher utilization (cycles per day) and abuse than level 3 chargers.

Tesla spent the money to do this, and they pulled it off. Go them.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#753

Post by Nick87633 »

simondotau wrote: post #706
Turskarama wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current high speed connectors are actually water cooled.

Correct, but that is necessary in order to get a relatively lightweight and flexible cable to carry huge loads. It’s not nearly as important for an adapter which is, for the DC pins at least, a solid bus bar encased in heat resistant plastics.

I was thinking that the contact resistance would create quite a bit of heat as well, and if there's nowhere to dissipate you can get quite hot. Even if a high temp plastic can take it, you might burn the person handling it.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#754

Post by survirtual »

Alupis wrote: post #750
survirtual wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just said is very false. Do you have a 120v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~40 hours for a full charge. Do you have a 240v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~7 hours for a full charge (otherwise know as while sleeping). Sure is difficult to get around town waking up with ~300 miles of range everyday!

Majority of US homes do not have an abundance of 240v outlets - meaning your 40 hour charge is a non-starter for everyone but those in high income brackets and ability to modify their homes (ie. non-renters).

My parents added a 50amp, 240v plug for me to charge when I visit for a whopping $250. That would surely break most Americans bank!

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#755

Post by carcostthrow »

revscat wrote: post #742
carcostthrow wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure about that? https://ibb.co/8cjXRHc ...although yes I am lying about being on death row. Canada doesn't practical capital punishment. Certainly not for parking violations.

Yes. I am certain that you are being deceptive. So I looked around. For a 33 year old driver, single, male, unmarried, with no tickets/accidents/etc., living in Sudbury, ON: Intact Insurance: 2022 Tesla Model S LR 4DR: $178.17/mo [1] 2022 Acura NSX Hybrid 2DR AWD: $535.08/mo [2] TD Insurance: 2022 Tesla Model S LR 4DR: $232.42 [3] 2022 Acura NSX Hybrid 2DR AWD: "CALL" [4] Rather than calling I went to BrokerLink, whi…

I'm a little curious then, try your numbers with the 'L6R 2S5' postal code.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#756

Post by recursive »

Alupis wrote: post #751
recursive wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only the highest peaks of demand that cause problems for the grid. EV charging, on average, is one of the least time sensitive loads there is. People charge in the middle of the night when its cheap.

> People charge in the middle of the night when its cheap. Why is it cheap in the middle of the night? Because there's near zero demand. Fast forward 10 years and everyone has 1-2 EV's to charge each night. Is there zero demand still? No... and now it's expensive to charge at night. People really need to be realistic about these things. Pretending these issues do not exist only harms EV adoption. People buy expensive…

> People buy expensive EV's and find out it's a major PITA to keep it running, it's expensive to charge, it takes forever to charge, etc.

Very few people have done this. After people buy EVs, most of them learn how easy it is in comparison to ICE cars.

You're very optimistic if you think "everyone will have 1 or 2 EVs" in 10 years time. New ICE cars will still be available until at least 2035. Not accounting for non-new cars.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#757

Post by pnpnp »

BluePen7 wrote: post #745
pnpnp wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.

As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday. Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.

I totally agree. I don't think there would be a push for NACS from other automakers if it isn't better, royalty free, and completely open.

I have Starlink as well - over promised, and under delivered _but_ it currently still has no competition in my area.

The difference is that Tesla now has competition, but they did still have some good ideas. If NACS really is open and free, I don't see the big deal.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#758

Post by mwint »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #592
pseudosavant wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people can hear this loud enough. I own an EV with CCS, I'm glad the rest of the industry looks to be going NACS. CCS is in fact objectively terrible. CCS could only seem decent when it was following on something as truly atrocious as Chademo.

> I own an EV with CCS, I'm glad the rest of the industry looks to be going NACS. CCS is in fact objectively terrible. Can you explain your reasoning? I have an EV with CCS and have never had a problem with it, so I don't know what is "objectively terrible" about it.

Heavy. Huge. Expensive. Complex. Prone to failure.

Basically like any design-by-committee output.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#759

Post by cyberax »

Kirby64 wrote: post #703
cyberax wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Ford uses a 400V-based architecture, but it can charge at 800V by connected two sections of the battery in series.

So, you add the complexity of having to have a way to switch between 400V and 800V safely, which costs some amount of money, and the only advantage then is the cabling from the battery to the charging port can be thinner? That really doesn't seem like much savings, and if anything might cost more. The run from the charging port to the battery should already be really short.

800V for charging allows faster charging on CCS, because the existing stations are mainly current-limited. It won't be necessary on NACS.

I think that Ford just wants to switch to 800V anyway, and 400V is just a stopgap.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#760

Post by jxf »

hinkley wrote: post #709
jxf wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q: what does "must work 97% of the time" mean? Like, 97% availability?

Sounds like “10 million stranded Americans per day” to me. I hope the actual document is more rigorous than the summary, but then we all know how these things tend to play out.

Well, for example, many gas pumps aren't 24/7, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were less than 97% availability.
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