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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#741

Post by recursive »

dmitrygr wrote: post #676
wilg wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will…

> while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home Suure... because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Not sure where you think that is, but in USA that it not even remotely true.

> because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work.

Probably not. The modifications aren't that heavy, and aren't even always necessary.

But 80% of EV owners probably do.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#742

Post by revscat »

carcostthrow wrote: post #683
revscat wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you’re lying.

Sure about that? https://ibb.co/8cjXRHc ...although yes I am lying about being on death row. Canada doesn't practical capital punishment. Certainly not for parking violations.

Yes. I am certain that you are being deceptive.

So I looked around.

For a 33 year old driver, single, male, unmarried, with no tickets/accidents/etc., living in Sudbury, ON:

Intact Insurance:

2022 Tesla Model S LR 4DR: $178.17/mo [1]

2022 Acura NSX Hybrid 2DR AWD: $535.08/mo [2]

TD Insurance:

2022 Tesla Model S LR 4DR: $232.42 [3]

2022 Acura NSX Hybrid 2DR AWD: "CALL" [4]

Rather than calling I went to BrokerLink, which lets you get quotes from different sources. The average quotes given by BrokerLink for each vehicle were:

2022 Tesla Model S LR 4DR: $360/mo [5]

2022 Acura NSX Hybrid 2DR AWD: $520/mo [6]

So no, I do not believe you are being honest. There is no reason to believe that.

[1] https://imgur.com/kCNmYDb

[2] https://imgur.com/BfkXpMp

[3] https://imgur.com/S3KH9df

[4] https://imgur.com/qBbLScb

[5] https://imgur.com/bMW5kol

[6] https://imgur.com/va47isk

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#743

Post by vegardx »

TexanFeller wrote: post #718
vegardx wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being hand waved away. You're just constructing scenarios that most people owning an electric vehicle will agree is such a non-issue that it's not really worth debating. There are plenty of fast chargers to fill the gaps. Many people travel regularly. Many people don't. That's how we ended up on the average being 50km.

> There are plenty of fast chargers to fill the gaps. Definitely not on the route to where my family lives. I checked last year when I was looking at EV, there's like a single L2 charger at a hotel on the whole route. I expect it will be several more years before the millions of us with family in the country can reasonably buy an EV.

I don't think I've ever claimed that EVs are suitable for everyone right now or that the infrastructure is there to fully replace every single scenario. The point is still that most people can have most of their needs met by a simple wall plug for charging.

Chances are that you don't even need to charge on your 150 miles trip. Most modern BEVs will be able to take you anywhere from 300-350 miles on a single charge. In your scenario you could literally do a round trip and have a comfortable level of charge when you get home again.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#744

Post by BluePen7 »

Kirby64 wrote: post #732
simondotau wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Tesla moves to replace the 12 volt subsystem with 48 volts, it would seem even more plausible to do V2L by routing outgoing power through the 48 volt system. The Ford F150 Lightning does V2L through the 9.6kW of on-board inverters. Fairly sure it's not capable of sending that back through J1772 / CCS2 unless I'm mistaken?

The F150 Lightning does V2L via the CCS port. It's supported, just the only car that I'm aware of that does this is the F150 Lightning.

Ioniq 5 does it too

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#745

Post by BluePen7 »

pnpnp wrote: post #652
deadbunny wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?

Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.

As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday.

Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#746

Post by BluePen7 »

mkozlows wrote: post #474
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

> Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford

They're trying to sell expensive EVs, but people were buying Teslas instead because they can guarantee the chargers work and are in good locations.

I have a lot of strong criticisms of Tesla, but slowly investing billions into building a reliable charging network over the last 10 years is hardly a "fast one"

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#747

Post by dreamcompiler »

Kirby64 wrote: post #733
dreamcompiler wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

J1772 won't go away. It's only for Level 2 (AC) charging. It doesn't compete in the DCFC space. CCS1 is what will go away. Apples and oranges.

I bet it will. Why would you bother hampering the design of the charge port door by requiring it to be large enough to cover both J1772 and NACS? The adapter solution is much easier for Tesla and others. And the adapters are cheap.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think you're probably right. Although J1772 is a real standard, NACS is rapidly becoming a de facto "real" standard, and it completely subsumes the purpose of J1772 plus it works for DCFC. NACS is slightly less clunky than J1772 also.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#748

Post by Kirby64 »

BluePen7 wrote: post #744
Kirby64 wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F150 Lightning does V2L via the CCS port. It's supported, just the only car that I'm aware of that does this is the F150 Lightning.

Ioniq 5 does it too

Ah right, via the weird dongle they have. It's not integrated into a home backup setup like the F150L, though.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#749

Post by Kirby64 »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #747
Kirby64 wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet it will. Why would you bother hampering the design of the charge port door by requiring it to be large enough to cover both J1772 and NACS? The adapter solution is much easier for Tesla and others. And the adapters are cheap.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think you're probably right. Although J1772 is a real standard, NACS is rapidly becoming a de facto "real" standard, and it completely subsumes the purpose of J1772 plus it works for DCFC. NACS is slightly less clunky than J1772 also.

That's basically the same story of how USB BC 1.2 (the old 'battery charging' standard that allowed 5V-1.5A out of USB plugs) came to exist. Vendors were making custom protocols that allowed higher currents than the measly 500mA USB permitted, and eventually the USB-IF threw up their hands and essentially incorporated these industry-made solutions into the USB BC1.2 standard. It wouldn't surprise me if SAE releases some new standard that happens to be NACS...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#750

Post by Alupis »

survirtual wrote: post #723
dmitrygr wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home Suure... because 80% of people own a home where they can do heavy electrical modifications, and can afford the permits and the work. Not sure where you think that is, but in USA that it not even remotely true.

What you just said is very false. Do you have a 120v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~40 hours for a full charge. Do you have a 240v outlet? Congrats, you can charge at home in ~7 hours for a full charge (otherwise know as while sleeping). Sure is difficult to get around town waking up with ~300 miles of range everyday!

Majority of US homes do not have an abundance of 240v outlets - meaning your 40 hour charge is a non-starter for everyone but those in high income brackets and ability to modify their homes (ie. non-renters).
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