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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#701

Post by dreamcompiler »

lttlrck wrote: post #664
KaiserPro wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL;DR you're still not going to have a supercharger at home any time soon. true, but a three phase CCS will do 22kw. the EU has the advantage that 240v needs half the current to get the same power as the US

Homes in most of the US get 3-phase 240v (120 0 -120) at the panel and it's split into 120v for most of the outlets. Some outlets are 240v (oven, dryer). So it's straightforward to get a 240V charger installed.

No. US homes get split-phase power which is two phases (not three) 180 degrees apart.

3-phase power is three phases 120 degrees apart, and it's extremely rare in single-family homes in the US.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#702

Post by sebazzz »

_ea1k wrote: post #357
sebazzz wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify: 3-phase power is irrelevant when it comes to CCS. The point of the Combined Charging System is the "combined". It is the signalling pins in the upper part of the Mennekes or J1772 connector and the large DC connectors in the bottom part. For slow charging, 3-phase power is relevant (the IEC Type 2 / Mennekes connector in this case).

He was saying that CCS1 in the US uses J1772 which does not support 3-phase power.

And referring to Europe

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#703

Post by Kirby64 »

cyberax wrote: post #528
Kirby64 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Migrating to higher voltage doesn't do anything to charge batteries faster. The only advantage is that you can decrease the size of the cabling since current goes down. On the other side though, you need to move all drive circuitry, motors, etc, to handle higher voltage architecture, which may end of costing more overall.

Not necessarily. Ford uses a 400V-based architecture, but it can charge at 800V by connected two sections of the battery in series.

So, you add the complexity of having to have a way to switch between 400V and 800V safely, which costs some amount of money, and the only advantage then is the cabling from the battery to the charging port can be thinner? That really doesn't seem like much savings, and if anything might cost more. The run from the charging port to the battery should already be really short.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#704

Post by Turskarama »

simondotau wrote: post #672
Nick87633 wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some high level of charging speed, won't the adapter need active cooling and temperature monitoring?

I wouldn't imagine so; a short, rigid adapter could have very thick conductors which would have low resistance relative to flexible cable. And being a passive adapter, it would be easy to make very heat tolerant.

The current high speed connectors are actually water cooled.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#705

Post by Turskarama »

mkozlows wrote: post #583
mustacheemperor wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, Tesla will still add CCS compatible adapters to the Supercharger network in the future, since it is a requirement for the EV network funding they're going after by opening up to additional manufacturers. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...

That's the plan as of right now, but the clear intent here is to push the government to change the rules to allow NACS-only chargers. If a few more automakers (Hyundai and VW being probably the most relevant) sign deals with Tesla to use NACS, it'd be impossible to argue that there's any reason to do a CCS buildout.

I think the government would only allow NACS only if it becomes an open standard. The government can't mandate a connector that only one manufacturer can make when alternatives exist.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#706

Post by simondotau »

Turskarama wrote: post #704
simondotau wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't imagine so; a short, rigid adapter could have very thick conductors which would have low resistance relative to flexible cable. And being a passive adapter, it would be easy to make very heat tolerant.

The current high speed connectors are actually water cooled.

Correct, but that is necessary in order to get a relatively lightweight and flexible cable to carry huge loads. It’s not nearly as important for an adapter which is, for the DC pins at least, a solid bus bar encased in heat resistant plastics.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#707

Post by light_hue_1 »

echelon wrote: post #564
light_hue_1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't disagree more. We really wanted an ev. Even bought it when there were no incentives available. Nothing to do with the global market or regulation. It's a superior experience in every way. From the performance, to the software, to the charging. I just plug it in and never think about charging. On long drives it needs a topup when our family does.

I live in place where the parking is super weird. Historical building with historical grounds. We're literally not allowed to resurface the parking because it's all historic. Part of an old steam power plant between cotton mill buildings from the 1800s. How am I going to fuel my vehicle? We won't be able to install power at limited distribution sites for everyone. 300 residents with their own EVs is going to make sha…

> I live in place where the parking is super weird. Historical building with historical grounds. We're literally not allowed to resurface the parking because it's all historic. How am I going to fuel my vehicle?

You're in luck.

The historical registry always had exemptions for upgrading mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems to make a building functional. https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1739/secretary-standards-treatment-...

Recently these exceptions were extended to EV chargers. You can thank Biden and the Democrats for that. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/11/02/2022-23...

Once the basic infrastructure is in, adding additional chargers is only a nominal cost.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#708

Post by vegardx »

TexanFeller wrote: post #667
vegardx wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't drive 500km per day, the average is closer to 50 or so. So on average, you could easily top of your battery pack on 240V/10A circuit. That would be around 10kWh, which you'll do in 5 hours. Double the average and you'll still be topped up next morning.

Many people often travel regularly, like I do to visit family 150mi away. It would sure be nice to be able to charge while I'm at their house at a rate that would fill me back up. Range and charging speed matters, y'all shouldn't be just hand waving it away.

It's not being hand waved away. You're just constructing scenarios that most people owning an electric vehicle will agree is such a non-issue that it's not really worth debating. There are plenty of fast chargers to fill the gaps.

Many people travel regularly. Many people don't. That's how we ended up on the average being 50km.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#709

Post by hinkley »

jxf wrote: post #655
mustacheemperor wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0] >the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's…

Q: what does "must work 97% of the time" mean? Like, 97% availability?

Sounds like “10 million stranded Americans per day” to me. I hope the actual document is more rigorous than the summary, but then we all know how these things tend to play out.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#710

Post by Symbiote »

lttlrck wrote: post #664
KaiserPro wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL;DR you're still not going to have a supercharger at home any time soon. true, but a three phase CCS will do 22kw. the EU has the advantage that 240v needs half the current to get the same power as the US

Homes in most of the US get 3-phase 240v (120 0 -120) at the panel and it's split into 120v for most of the outlets. Some outlets are 240v (oven, dryer). So it's straightforward to get a 240V charger installed.

Three phase in Europe (and most of the world) means 220V @ 0°, 220V @ 120°, 220V @ 240°, 0V (neutral).

There is 220V between any phase and neutral, and 400V between any pair of phases. I'm not am electrical engineer, but I think the car charger would be using 400V in this case.

If you're ever in a datacentre or factory in Europe (including the UK), you will probably see fist-sized red plugs and sockets to provide about 60A at 220/400V.

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