Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

ev-edition.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 761 posts

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#561

Post by iknowstuff »

bisby wrote: post #554
gibolt wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is actually requiring CCS1 (currently) to get that funding. This may change as more dominoes fall as others adopt NACS. Considering that nearly all U.S. manufacturers are now switching off of CCS1, this requirement makes no sense since infrastructure is meant to last.

Are the chargers/ports on cars easy enough to swap out, or are we manufacturing ewaste? If I were to buy a car with CCS today, and then in 2024, NACS wins, and all cars going forward have NACS, and all charging stations change to NACS as a result... In the year 2030, can I get the port upgraded, are the changing stations obligated to support CCS indefinitely, is there an adapter I can just keep in my car for NACS->CC…

They all speak the CCS protocol so it’s a matter of a simple passive adapter.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#562

Post by jmgao »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #307
dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

> a better standard in North America Is a global standard not better for everyone in the long run?

There isn't a global standard anyway, CCS1 (North America) and CCS2 (Europe) are physically incompatible.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#563

Post by rasz »

cyberax wrote: post #522
speed_spread wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just charging data obviously, it's all the car usage data. Where you go, how fast, with who... And yes, after a few years, the value of that data is worth more than the original profit they made selling the car itself. Its also recurring revenue, they don't even need to sell you a new car to keep making money. There's a reason the Ford CEO declared a few years back that Ford was to become "a data company". T…

> Where you go, how fast, with who.. Where you go can not be inferred from the charging sessions. You can kinda infer the speed, by looking at the state of charger between two sessions. You can't infer with whom you're travelling. Honestly, people always overinflate the usefulness of "data".

>You can't infer with whom you're travelling.

https://www.torquenews.com/11826/tesla-installs-video-camera...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#564

Post by echelon »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #275
echelon wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so sure I believe this strategy. An app isn't going to make me buy a car or Tesla equipment. Aesthetics, utility, and cost are my main purchasing decision dimensions, and Tesla isn't winning those for me. I'm not buying something shaped like a prune that can't haul gear and equipment. The ads on Uber and other delivery apps are irrelevant to my daily life. Uber claims advertising has generating $500M in ARR, but…

Couldn't disagree more. We really wanted an ev. Even bought it when there were no incentives available. Nothing to do with the global market or regulation. It's a superior experience in every way. From the performance, to the software, to the charging. I just plug it in and never think about charging. On long drives it needs a topup when our family does.

I live in place where the parking is super weird. Historical building with historical grounds. We're literally not allowed to resurface the parking because it's all historic. Part of an old steam power plant between cotton mill buildings from the 1800s.

How am I going to fuel my vehicle? We won't be able to install power at limited distribution sites for everyone. 300 residents with their own EVs is going to make shared charging stations a nightmare, and everyone will fight. I know this because we installed a few charging stations and it has already became an issue for the six Teslas on campus. Multiply that by 60.

It's easy to spend five minutes at a gas pump on my way somewhere. No impact to my day. Having to schedule time slots with neighbors is a nightmare.

I don't like any of this.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#565

Post by HWR_14 »

MattRix wrote: post #406
HWR_14 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that same sentence structure justifies a lottery based retirement plan. You only have to get the numbers once after all. I haven't seen any evidence they are able to make cars more cheaply and quickly than the incumbents.

Just look up the margins on Tesla’s cars vs EVs from other manufacturers. For example, Tesla’s net profit margin in Q1 2023 was 13%, meanwhile Ford is hoping that their electric vehicle division can get to 8% net profit by 2026 (they currently lose money on them)

Aren't those margins including amortization of capital expenses? And don't those decrease as cars/year goes up?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#566

Post by Jolter »

isykt wrote: post #530
elihu wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure; maybe you want a type of vehicle Tesla doesn't offer, or you want to buy from a vendor who's more open about making parts and service information available to users, or you want a more traditional car interface with normal switches and buttons rather than a big touch screen. Your question is sort of like asking if there's any reason to buy a computer that isn't made by Apple. Of course there is, it just depends…

If any of those conditions are true, why not wait until 2025 when the charging connection is settled?

What would I drive until then?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#567

Post by rasz »

dehrmann wrote: post #283
FireBeyond wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 'if' is a big one. Musk said, in 2015: "Self-piloting cars are a solved problem." "I view it as a solved problem. We know exactly what we need to do and we will be there in a few years." Last year, though, he was backpedaling: "Our focus is on solving the problem."

2023, his focus is on Twitter.

and Twitter bot spam is a solved problem

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#568

Post by hinkley »

jliptzin wrote: post #454
unregistereddev wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different people have different driving patterns and different needs. Some parts of the country have less (and crappier) charging infrastructure. Those parts of the country coincide with areas where places are further apart and you need more range. For some of us who happily live in flyover states, a PHEV is an awesome in between. I'm glad that an EV works out for you. Hopefully charging times (and charging infrastru…

I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... With 300 miles of range all you have to do is get to the next charger and if you're willing to spend 5 minutes in advance to plan your road trip it really doesn't add an…

Who has a real 300 mile range? That Bolt was going to get lucky making over 180.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#569

Post by kube-system »

93po wrote: post #491
kube-system wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Level 3 is the lowest level of self-driving. Level 2 and below are driver assistance features. Tesla makes very nice driver assistance features, but they have not released any features which operate the vehicle safely by itself under any circumstance. MB is beating Tesla in the self driving game because they've released a car that is >0% self driving. Tesla is beating everyone at the driver assistance game.

This is semantics. Firstly because this difference is largely because Tesla chooses to not deploy it as level 3 in some tiny highly-mapped market with sensors (LIDAR) and software that don't scale (MB's level 3 breaks at the first change in roads like construction). Secondly because Tesla is 90%+ of the way to building level 3 driving in 99% of places. MB is 99% of the way to level 3 driving in 0.1% of places and it…

It's not semantics at all. They're both currently focused on solving very different problems under the broad category of "driving automation". While MBs approach has obvious coverage limitations, the advantage to that approach is that the solution is a more clearly scoped problem with a more obvious answer: expand the coverage. Tesla's approach doesn't have nearly as clear of a path to advancement. They need technology that doesn't yet exist to get there. Some have posed some serious concerns about whether Tesla's feature-first maturity-second approach is an engineering dead end and will ever be able to mature to the point of being able to operate unsupervised. They may be close, but the Pareto principle is a bitch.

Time will tell, but I suspect we'll see Tesla adopt some of the same strategies that other automakers are taking before this race is over.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#570

Post by Retric »

megaman821 wrote: post #202
Retric wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s gross margins are down quite a bit since the Twitter deal. It’s hard to correlate consumer sentiment with the price drop vs other factors, but gross margins dropped from 27% to 23% which represent a lot of money. How much this impacts the company going forward is hard to say, but my guess is we’re talking 10’s of billions. Which makes it much harder to keep up with the expanding EV market, their super charger…

There is no telling how much money is involved in falling margins if you don't also look at revenues. A quick Google search shows their gross profits look fine. Also, you would have to compare them to other manufacturers. If profits were down an average of 20% and Tesla's were down 10% then they would be over performing their competitors during a down market.

Gross profits need to pay back capital expenses for equipment or land, R&D, etc which is why moderate drop in gross profits represents a much larger drop on long term profits.
Post reply on HN