If Tesla's charging network is available to Ford, GM, Rivian, then why would someone buy a Tesla
Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
291–300 of 761 posts
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.
Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.
I mean, that same sentence structure justifies a lottery based retirement plan. You only have to get the numbers once after all.
I haven't seen any evidence they are able to make cars more cheaply and quickly than the incumbents.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many modern cars have very good backup cameras that also show incoming traffic from both sides and don't required 5 eyeballs
Maybe on HN the majority of people have those modern cars, but I assure you in the real world the odds are not that good.
In the context of cars that would be using these chargers, I would assume the vast majority would be "modern" and have good backup cameras
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#294I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…
The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…
Also one other detail: There's a hell of a lot more money in the car 'fuel' industry than the car making business. R&D costs are way lower, you don't need that many employees, and you can always charge these third party automakers more. Tesla is going to make bank off these adopters.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a big fan of Tesla myself, but surely if they figure out self driving that’ll make their cars relevant for the forseeable future? On top of that they seem to be able to make cars cheaper and more quickly than most of the incumbents.
I think the vast vast majority of people (non HN techies) at this stage don't care that nearly as much about self driving as they do about having an electric/Hybrid/PHEV car that's just a great total package of a car - something that the existing car manufacturers are far, far better at than Tesla. Even manufacturers like Chevy and Ford can run circles around Tesla in terms of overall quality. Anecdotally in LA which…
> Those people are not buying a Tesla in the meantime
I've noticed people signing leases on ICE cars to wait out the delivery of their preferred EV solution.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not all Tesla's can speak CCS. Older Teslas need a $400 retrofit to be able to use the Tesla CCS1 adapter. https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter
I had the retrofit done on my 2018 MS. Have never once successfully charged at a non-Tesla charger. I'm not sure if it's me or the charging stations, which are somewhat known to be less reliable in general than Tesla's.
I bought the adapter off the gray market when it was only being sold in Korea, and promptly ran to my local EA station to try it out. Of the four plugs, only two worked, and one of those was loose and would glitch out if I didn't hold it against the car by hand.
I haven't charged via CCS since. It lives in the car as an emergency backup, but frankly I wouldn't plan a road trip stop at a CCS station if you paid me.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
BMW in my circles has the reputation as being a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time. Most American brands have reputation as just being really poorly built and bad value props. Not sure how either of those two options overcomes that view.
>a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time TBF, unless you are in a Niche market (off roading a land rover) - it's generally hard to buy a bad car today. Is a Camry more reliable than a 3 series? Yes. But you're talking 4 9s vs 5 under warranty; being near a good dealership with good service is markedly more important than brand reputation. If my Audi/BMW/Volvo are in the shop for…
Once you’re out of warranty BMW tend to “implode” like everything breaks at once. But even in warranty dealing with going to the dealership and getting the repair is a huge hassle vs just having a car that stays out of your way.
Time is our most valuable asset and giving it up to stupid things like waiting in dealership waiting rooms, regardless of how much free coffee and popcorn they have just isn’t my idea of time well spent.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not only have politicians noticed this, but the conniving little jerks have already started framing the problem in a way that implies EVs should be paying far more than gas cars. Many states are pushing for tag fees based upon the average revenue per gas/disel vehicle per year without regard to those vehicles MPG. Given that a lot of EVs are replacing high MPG vehicles, the formulations are incredibly unfair. But the…
I am not a civil engineer, but it's frequently cited in these discussions that road damage goes up as a function of the 4th power of vehicle weight[0]. A Rivian R1T has a curb weight of 7148lbs [1], a 4wd Chevy Silverado 1500 has a curb weight of 4826 lbs [2]. I think an increased registration fee is more than fair. Hell, do it for all vehicles if you want to make it really fair. We drive far larger vehicles in the U…
I 100% agree, as long as you also extend that to semi trucks. Interestingly, that would tend to push up fuel prices too.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla Insurance is a kind of small moat. Only idiots buy black-box based car insurance (whether Tesla or any other). I mean, come on, insurance companies are already renowned for slippery policy wordings and the desire to get out of paying-out. Do you seriously think an insurance company having access to your driving data is really being done for your benefit ? I would be willing to bet its so that Mr Risk Adjustor…
> And once "computer says no" you'll have a hell of a time trying to fight it. Cars have been equipped with event data recorders that capture information moments before the crash for at least 20 years. It is part of the air bag controller. Insurance companies have equipment to read that data and use it against customers all the time. You don't need a Tesla or other black box insurance to get cheated.
Having a little accelerometer data that is probably a mild hassle to extract is far different than an always-on, internet-enabled, sensor-filled computer that literally has a camera pointing at your face.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#300I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…
The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…
My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama.
I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-80% at my house. My house was wired for level 2 charging by the previous owners but the plug is 220 3 prong rather than the NEMA 14-50 plug that seems to be de rigeur lately. At least I could probably get an electrician to fix that cheap.
If anything the non CCS chargers are made by idiots.