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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#391
post #379

Why are these automakers pushing to adopt Teslas solution, which isn't standardized or open, instead of creating a new CCS3? I can't imagine NACS to ever be adopted in the EU, so why the additional complexity?

Europe's CCS and America's CCS are already incompatible (CCS1 vs 2).

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A few years ago there was no good option besides tesla, but in another couple years tesla will have fallen behind the competition" Much of the competition still struggles with software. Sure you can use Apple CarPlay or whatever for the basics, but as far as the full software suite goes, there isn't yet much that comes close to Tesla's performance, ease-of-use, UX, functionality, hardware integration, automatic ov…

This is my point. Tesla is good at a small handful of things, and making cars is not one of them. They could sell batteries, charging infra, software, and whatever else to the companies that are competent at building (and fixing!!) cars. They aren't going to remain competitive on the cars themselves

> "Tesla is good at a small handful of things, and making cars is not one of them."

Tesla is manufacturing EVs at much greater volumes than almost anyone else, and doing so very profitably. They also score consistently high on customer satisfaction. Seems like making cars is exactly what Tesla has become very good at in recent years?

Sure, Tesla may not make the most luxurious, nor the cheapest cars on the market. But right now they seem to be very successfully hitting a sweet spot in the middle.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.) I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark. I never saw three-phase power in a house or flat in Britain, but part of the terrible plumbing is 7-9kW electric showers. (Cheaper to install than a shower connected to hot water, landlord doesn't care about the price to run it.)

> Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.) I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark. Now now kids, play nicely. ;-) I think the underlying question we should really be asking here is not willy-waving over whether you have a three-phase supply or not, but rather how large your main fuse is (there's a euphemism for you !). I'm not familiar with D…

40A on each phase, so 120A total — at least as I understand it [1]. I think that's plenty to charge a car, but good luck parking on the 4th floor. The oven and hob use all three phases. I think tumble driers used to, but they're now so efficient in the EU it's no longer worthwhile.

Several ordinary 3-phase sockets have been installed by parking spaces in the basement, and are rented by residents with EVs.

[1] The main breaker: https://www.se.com/ww/en/product/A9Z61440/residual-current-c...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true in most of the US right now depending on how efficient either vehicle is. I can't check supercharger rates but EA pricing is mostly the same across the country: EA membership pricing: $0.36/kWh California gas prices: $4.86/gal ($4.86/gallon)/(x mpg)=$0.36/1kwh *(29kwh/100mi) x=46.6 mpg to break even with the Chevy Bolt's efficiency in the worst case scenario for gas in the US. A Prius and many other hybrid…

250Wh can move my EV car (Tesla Model Y) 1 mile in around-town traffic (i.e. not at highway speeds). So to move the car 30 miles, I need 30*250 = 7.5kWh. If 1kWh costs $.36 at a DCFC, then 7.5kWh of electricity costs $2.70. Compared to $4.86/gallon and assuming an ICE car gets 30mpg, that says electricity at a DCFC is about 55% of the price of gasoline, for the same number of miles driven. The breakeven mpg is 30/.55…

Agreed on all counts, vehicles are a very complicated product segment so specifics will always matter a lot, but overall running costs are usually going to go in favor of the EV assuming you can charge at home or at your destination. Something like a Prius Prime is probably the only type of vehicle that can realistically compete on running costs for the average consumer and it will probably be a lot more boring than any EV other than the Leaf or Bolt.

I do wish we had seen more performance oriented hybrids at reasonable price points since they get the benefits of instant torque without as much of a weight penalty as full EV but I think that we might already be a bit too late into the EV transition for that.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#395

I wonder if Tesla is repositioning from being a Ford to being an Exxon

I don't think the business case for that closes. EVs are still overwhelmingly charged overnight at home. As they percolate to lower price points, that will change somewhat, but ultimately the total spend on charging stations is just too low to be much more than a distraction for a company the size of Tesla. The reason they built the supercharger network was that it was needed to sell cars, and now that they have it t…

First reaction: I think you are right. Not only will a large portion of all chargeups happen at home, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the margin is lower.

Second reaction: Maybe there's a business model where most of the profit from a charging station comes from things other than charging (e.g. onsite coffee shop, store, gym, etc) that gives people things to do while charging.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…

My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama. I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-…

For the large majority of driving PHEVs are superior. They offer identical efficiency for short (<50 mile) trips at a large cost savings. They can handle longish trips where a BEV would wind up dead on the side of the road. Even in the rare circumstances where BEVs are better the advantages are slight.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "A few years ago there was no good option besides tesla, but in another couple years tesla will have fallen behind the competition" Much of the competition still struggles with software. Sure you can use Apple CarPlay or whatever for the basics, but as far as the full software suite goes, there isn't yet much that comes close to Tesla's performance, ease-of-use, UX, functionality, hardware integration, automatic ov…

This is my point. Tesla is good at a small handful of things, and making cars is not one of them. They could sell batteries, charging infra, software, and whatever else to the companies that are competent at building (and fixing!!) cars. They aren't going to remain competitive on the cars themselves

I still cannot figure out what Car People mean when they say Tesla is bad at making cars. What are you looking at that normal people don't see? The one thing I agree about is the yoke steering wheel, but that's on a high-end car nobody seems to actually buy.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama. I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-…

The Atlantic had a piece about the "surprise EV rental": https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/06/elect... What they say is dead on -- EVs are great, but getting an EV in a rental situation that's not optimal for an EV without notice and without planning for it is a terrible, terrible situation. Level 2 chargers are great in your garage, or in a place you're going to park for a long time anyway (hotels,…

Well the quarter of that article I could read seemed interesting.

The 80/20 rule made them furious. Academically I knew about it but I never had to experience it.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#399
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been seeing some of these as well in recent years. The most memorable one was down in Louisville, where there was a gas station/bait shop/bar. The bartender sold me some whole-hog pork sausage at $2/lb. which he kept in a duffel bag in the ice box. Totally on the up-and-up. Another is a well-known BBQ joint / convenience store out by Kansas City (I forget the name). Most common, I think, is having a Subway insid…

> The bartender sold me some whole-hog pork sausage at $2/lb. which he kept in a duffel bag in the ice box. Totally on the up-and-up. The secret ingredient is trichinosis!

It was delicious. I fried the hell out of it and used it for home-made Dan Dan Mian.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

My wife drives a Tesla and I drive newish rental cars on a reasonably frequent basis. So I have a basis for comparison. They are definitely not being beaten by larger players. At least not at this stage. Their software is top notch compared to the mish-mash of home grown and Car Play on other vehicles. And the implementation of AutoSteer (free cut down version of self driving) is far superior to what I've seen in oth…

i only ever want CarPlay. i want my own apps that i already have, my own settings, integration into my calendar without leaking data to some random third party.

on my smart tv i use apple tv, and never their own ui. i trust apple for privacy and dont want to log in or configure 20 apps on my car. i want my iPhone and its features, period.

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