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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#371

Post by w0m »

vxNsr wrote: post #297
w0m wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time TBF, unless you are in a Niche market (off roading a land rover) - it's generally hard to buy a bad car today. Is a Camry more reliable than a 3 series? Yes. But you're talking 4 9s vs 5 under warranty; being near a good dealership with good service is markedly more important than brand reputation. If my Audi/BMW/Volvo are in the shop for…

Once you’re out of warranty BMW tend to “implode” like everything breaks at once. But even in warranty dealing with going to the dealership and getting the repair is a huge hassle vs just having a car that stays out of your way. Time is our most valuable asset and giving it up to stupid things like waiting in dealership waiting rooms, regardless of how much free coffee and popcorn they have just isn’t my idea of time…

We had a first-year X1. Starter went after ~10,000 miles. Dealership was garbage (hence my comments above), but still towed us home and dropped off a loaner-car for the ~week it took to fix. Annoying, wasted ~hour waiting for toe truck to pick us up; but overall not a horrendous experience (despite piling 3 adults and 2 dogs into toe truck).

I had a 2010 Impreza, ~first month or two of ownership - dashboard went nuts and i pulled over. Car got towed to dealership - they found nothing wrong. Lost an evening and no loaner car in the ~48h it took them to determine 'nothing wrong'. Two 'new' cars - vastly better experience with one than the other.

Anecdotal of course; but

> even in warranty dealing with going to the dealership and getting the repair is a huge

You get that with any car - my Tacoma was indestructible and still had multiple recalls I had to drop it off for.

You are correct if you're talking driving a car into the ground though - I'd vastly rather have a 10 y/o v6 Taco than an 8 y/o supercharged Dakota.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#372

Post by _ea1k »

alistairSH wrote: post #135
londons_explore wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that part of the standard is that all vehicles shall have a charge plug on either front/right or back/left corners. Making the cable longer makes the experience worse for everyone - it makes the cable heavier (harder to use), more expensive (which will end up in power prices), easier to damage (as it is dragged across the floor or driven over), more electrical losses in the cable (again, higher prices). There…

I never understood why front-center didn't become the standard here. That would obviate more stand placement and cable length issues. The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) (Rear-center would work too)

Front center is more prone to debris and ultimately a little less helpful for vehicles that will tow frequently.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#373

Post by fastball »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #221
outlace wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Insurance is a kind of small moat. But I think Tesla is really banking on winning the automotive AI race. They currently don't seem to be winning, but that does appear to be their main gamble. If they can be the first to achieve level 4+ self-driving then they would definitely dominate regardless of charging infrastructure.

Level 4? Mercedes already beat them to level 3 https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/27/23572942/mercedes-drive-p...

The self-driving car level system is stupid because it is implies linearity but it is absolutely not.

It also implies that higher level == better, which is certainly not a given. Is a system that can drive well on 10% of roads 99% of the time better than a system that can drive on 90% of roads 80% of the time? Not objectively. The former is "level 3" and the latter is "level 2".

A solution that can get you to 3 quickly might never get you to 4. And just because you beat someone else to market with "level 3" doesn't mean their solution won't skip over yours straight to 4/5.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#374

Post by WaitWaitWha »

occamrazor wrote: post #328
Pet_Ant wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a better standard in North America Is a global standard not better for everyone in the long run?

It doesn’t really matter. Nobody brings their car overseas, and the costs for having different chargers in Europe and NA are negligible.

Nobody?

I shipped my car several times back and forth between USA, Europe, and Australia because the rental cost would have been more than the shipping cost.

RoRo shipping my car cost round trip $1,600 last year USA/Europe plus $300 insurance rider.

Three month rental, plus rental insurance versus rider on my insurance? Rental would be approximately $3,100 car and about another $1,800 for insurance.

I am nobody.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#375

Post by yumraj »

dagmx wrote: post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

> It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned.

It’s their biggest moat IFF it’s limited to Tesla’s and their charging stations.

If every car adopts their charging port/socket and every charging station (Tesla and non-Tesla) supports Tesla’s port/socket then the most diminishes and ultimately disappears.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#376

Post by jandrese »

dahfizz wrote: post #290
vxNsr wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW in my circles has the reputation as being a brand you buy when you can afford to have a car in the shop most of the time. Most American brands have reputation as just being really poorly built and bad value props. Not sure how either of those two options overcomes that view.

Tesla also has quite the reputation for cheaply built cars that are outrageously expensive to repair

The flipside is that you hardly ever have to bring a Tesla into the shop. In the end they are fairly cheap to maintain.

https://www.automoblog.net/research/maintenance/tesla-mainte...

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#377

Post by 015a »

echelon wrote: post #241
erikstarck wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the mission of Tesla is to transition the world to sustainable energy. If you believe them, that should be enough. But, second of all, this also makes business sense. Everyone will have to use the Tesla app, where they can get targeted offers and become a kind of "Tesla Light" customers. People wonder why Tesla doesn't advertise. Well, with these deals, the need for advertising is a lot less than withou…

Not so sure I believe this strategy. An app isn't going to make me buy a car or Tesla equipment. Aesthetics, utility, and cost are my main purchasing decision dimensions, and Tesla isn't winning those for me. I'm not buying something shaped like a prune that can't haul gear and equipment. The ads on Uber and other delivery apps are irrelevant to my daily life. Uber claims advertising has generating $500M in ARR, but…

> An app isn't going to make me buy a car or Tesla equipment. Aesthetics, utility, and cost are my main purchasing decision dimensions

The interesting thing is: There's confirmation bias in this, but every single person I've talked to who owns a Tesla might have said this before owning one, but would now never say it afterward. It does things you never know you needed, until you have it, and then you're shopping for cars afterward and your standards go up. Wait, the infotainment still has a resistive touch-screen which runs at 45fps? The maps won't automatically route me to nearby chargers and give me a battery charge prediction for arrival that learns from my driving habits?

Oh, here's an interesting one: Teslas have (configurable) cabin overheat protection. Maybe some other brands have this as well, I don't know, but: the cabin never gets above 100F, if you have more-than 20% battery, and it doesn't cause that much drain (maybe ~3%/day, maybe more in Arizona or Texas). In other words; you never have a hot car, and you don't fuddle with remote start / "turn the AC on 10 minutes before I leave" / whatever. Its just... never all that hot; and you don't notice it until you get in a traditional car that's been sitting in the parking lot all day, sticky leather seats and its 120F inside.

All I can say is: Your mindset is probably more a reflection of your environment than any more foundational principals; and if you want to keep it that way, I'd recommend that you don't spend any significant length of time driving a Tesla.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#378

Post by earthboundkid »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #340
hinkley wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest rounds of gas convenience stores have gotten more square footage than earlier generations. I suspect they are anticipating indoor seating for charging customers at some point. I’ve also started seeing joint ventures where it’s a proper coffee stand or in one case I can think of an A&W root beer. Gas stations tend to be physically separated from pastimes (what Burger King owner wants diesel fumes in their s…

That is a very astute observation! Thank you. I have wondered why more and more convenience stores are getting into not just quick, pick-up snacks, but full blown fast-food style sit down environment. Recently when I drove around in the USA, I saw Sheetz, Wawa, Royal Farms, Rutter's, and High's. These are substantially larger with lots of amenities compared to the standard gas stations. Nothing compared to Buc-ee's,…

> Recently when I drove around in the USA, I saw Sheetz, Wawa, Royal Farms, Rutter's, and High's.

So you drove from Philly to Pittsburgh?

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#380

Post by _ea1k »

bilsbie wrote: post #123

Won’t the chargers get overcrowded?

Tesla adds ~1 site per day in the US at the moment, and this may even help them accelerate that. They also do a pretty good job of fixing hotspots when they start to develop.

I don't expect it to be a big problem.

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