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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#171
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In titles, almost all words are capitalized (except for small word like articles of speech).

I think "with" should be capitalized but "for" should not. I believe AP style guide says that propositions that are four or more letters should be capitalized.

> ... propositions that are four or more letters ...

So "yes" and "no" but "Maybe"? :-)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#172

Would love to hear fast how charging stations will scale in a way that beats the current price and speed of filling up a car with gasoline. I mean, even in a small town with, say, three gas stations, there are peak times when all the spots are taken. Average fueling time is probably a few minutes. How to switch that to an all-electric system? + build a significantly higher number of fast electric charges than there a…

I have no data, but I suspect we underestimate the impact of at-home charging. Essentially, all vehicles parked at a residence start every day with a full charge. This eliminates most of the demand on fast-charge stations for around-town use. Granted, they still consume power that the grid has to supply, so pricing may change, but I suspect gas station traffic will go way down, in aggregate, as EV adoption climbs. On…

> Essentially, all vehicles parked at a residence start every day with a full charge.

But as I pointed out, this causes a non-trivial rise in the demand for electricity at the home, and a consequent jump in electricity prices.

Somewhat relevant-- inflation and other economic problems have already caused a growth in car repos this year. And it includes both the mid-level and luxury vehicles. People who thought they could afford those massive "market adjustments" in the past two years are literally unable to make payments. And that's with banks really wanting to avoid doing the repos since the price at auction is already going to be significantly lower than those market-adjusted prices.

That is to say...

If EVs are produced at scale and home chargers installed at scale, a jump in electricity prices could lead to the same problem. In that case it doesn't matter how cheap EVs get, that electricity price jump is functionally equivalent to taking on higher monthly payments for the car. And someone in Dallas, Texas needs both a charged car to get to work and their home air conditioner running to not die. If things get tight then it's the actual car payments that have to go unpaid. And we'll be back in repo land again.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#173
post #25

I'm going to assume all these companies did their homework and NACS is a real open standard, not something under Tesla's boot. In which case, great! This is the outcome I was hoping for. NACS is the better and more popular connector, it should become the standard in NA. CCS1 isn't that bad, but when you have a choice, choose the better one. Nissan leafs are still using Chademo, which shows how serious they are about…

[deleted]

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#174
post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

As a business it seems smarter to grow the pie and increase your revenues even if Tesla's marketshare decreases. Even through the lens of hating Elon Musk and wanting alternatives, most people have no strong feelings at all. Price and availability largely dictates what Tesla will sell. I have not seen any data Elon's antics change sales volumes.

Tesla’s gross margins are down quite a bit since the Twitter deal. It’s hard to correlate consumer sentiment with the price drop vs other factors, but gross margins dropped from 27% to 23% which represent a lot of money.

How much this impacts the company going forward is hard to say, but my guess is we’re talking 10’s of billions. Which makes it much harder to keep up with the expanding EV market, their super charger network for example needs to dramatically increase capacity just to keep up with the current rate of new Tesla production. Aka 25 year old EV’s will still need a place to recharge.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#175
post #56

Is there any technical reason you can't build an adapter from NACS to CCS1? We have adapters for Tesla destination chargers (NACS without fast charging??) to J1772 and they work just fine.

No technical reason. But the adapter might not be “small”

I dunno, this adapter doesn't seem to be exceptionally large.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BdukzpR7_ao/maxresdefault.jpg

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that part of the standard is that all vehicles shall have a charge plug on either front/right or back/left corners. Making the cable longer makes the experience worse for everyone - it makes the cable heavier (harder to use), more expensive (which will end up in power prices), easier to damage (as it is dragged across the floor or driven over), more electrical losses in the cable (again, higher prices). There…

I never understood why front-center didn't become the standard here. That would obviate more stand placement and cable length issues. The only people who stand to lose are those weirdos who reverse into parking places. ;) (Rear-center would work too)

Having the connector in a corner is definitely a lot nicer than central. However, it should be on a passenger side corner rather than driver side as Tesla uses to make curbside charging more convenient.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#177

I wonder if Tesla is repositioning from being a Ford to being an Exxon

That seems foolish from a business perspective. The one thing they're most successful at is cars. They built an incredible first-mover advantage in EVs, but that isn't at all true in the power market. They're just a blip in the battery market. And while superchargers are great, there's no moat there at all.

If they're smart, they'll double down on cars like the Model 3 & Y, and instead of making them sillier (no stalks?!) they'll make them ever more appealing and cost competitive. They're the Toyota of the EV world right now, and if they play this right they'll be the Toyota of the whole market in 10 years. They would need a proper truck, though, to make that happen.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#178
post #160
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CCS current spec/design can deliver up to 350kW (although few if any cars can take advantage of that today). NACS claims it can provide up to 1MW (1000A @ 1000V). I think it will be a while before we see cars able to charge anywhere near this, but there is a trend right now of big EV pickups with massive batteries. Higher power chargers means faster charge times. The only downside I see with NACS is you can’t level 2…

>In most of Europe homes do have 3-phase power and large loads like an EV are required to use it. Yes and no, distribution is usually 3-phase so the 3 phases do arrive to the building, but in a number of countries in Europe inside the home only 1 phase is used and the amount of available power (by contract) is a fraction of what the US are used to (of course depending by country, but it is rare that a house has a con…

Please don't generalize "Europe" when you aren't sure. (Also goes for the GP.)

I have three-phase power in an 80m² apartment, as that's standard in Denmark.

I never saw three-phase power in a house or flat in Britain, but part of the terrible plumbing is 7-9kW electric showers. (Cheaper to install than a shower connected to hot water, landlord doesn't care about the price to run it.)

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#179
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no data, but I suspect we underestimate the impact of at-home charging. Essentially, all vehicles parked at a residence start every day with a full charge. This eliminates most of the demand on fast-charge stations for around-town use. Granted, they still consume power that the grid has to supply, so pricing may change, but I suspect gas station traffic will go way down, in aggregate, as EV adoption climbs. On…

Not only have politicians noticed this, but the conniving little jerks have already started framing the problem in a way that implies EVs should be paying far more than gas cars. Many states are pushing for tag fees based upon the average revenue per gas/disel vehicle per year without regard to those vehicles MPG. Given that a lot of EVs are replacing high MPG vehicles, the formulations are incredibly unfair. But the…

> Many states are pushing for tag fees based upon the average revenue per gas/disel vehicle per year without regard to those vehicles MPG. Given that a lot of EVs are replacing high MPG vehicles, the formulations are incredibly unfair.

Is it, though? Does the taxation rate matter more than the total collected per year distributed by the number of users? If you aren’t counting/won’t count miles driven, this seems like a fair alternative. The idea isn’t to tax 21 cents a gallon - that’s the implementation detail - the idea is to collect $xx billion a year to (ostensibly) pay for transportation related costs.

To use a logical proof instead, assume all cars are converted to EV with the flick of a wand. Do you think your proposal would seriously last? The same amount (modulo some percentage) needs to be collected to pay for whatever costs are relying on that tax to be funded. The rate (not the total price) has to go up for EV users.

Now if gas at the pump included an explicit carbon tax then absolutely, that shouldn’t be ported over to the rate EV users are charged.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#180
post #160
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CCS current spec/design can deliver up to 350kW (although few if any cars can take advantage of that today). NACS claims it can provide up to 1MW (1000A @ 1000V). I think it will be a while before we see cars able to charge anywhere near this, but there is a trend right now of big EV pickups with massive batteries. Higher power chargers means faster charge times. The only downside I see with NACS is you can’t level 2…

>In most of Europe homes do have 3-phase power and large loads like an EV are required to use it. Yes and no, distribution is usually 3-phase so the 3 phases do arrive to the building, but in a number of countries in Europe inside the home only 1 phase is used and the amount of available power (by contract) is a fraction of what the US are used to (of course depending by country, but it is rare that a house has a con…

An electric kettle can draw about 3kW, I've only once seen a home with a limit this absurdly low
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