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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#731

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

Will try to take a crack at this. Two underlying principles I think will drive the Vision pro are:

1. The need to live vicariously / voyeuristically: it’s possible for me to at least a two-sense experience of sky diving, bungee jumping, F1 / motor cross racing, and many others, including some darker more voyeuristic experiences like sex with someone out of my league, or unfortunately even extremes like murder / suicide. While the extremes are bad, there’s a lot of market for meeting desires in the middle.

2. Current efforts that have physics limitations: I’d like to make my multi-monitor setup on to a couch or car or plane, or even just have more monitors at my desk than my desk allows. I’d like a bigger TV in my small room. These things I want are big, expensive, and limited by physics and money, and the Vision makes them available to me.

So these two things are the killer apps for me - experiences which I would otherwise not have access to, and the removal of physics burdens in my daily work setup.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having used VR, I actually think I would rather move around for 3 hours than stand still for 3 hours

That's certainly true but sitting for three hours is better than either.

As someone who used to stand or move around while gaming, I'd much rather go back to that than sitting. Unfortunately for me I love the precision of a keyboard and mouse. One day I'll find the right compromise.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#733
post #142
post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

> This is just like the infamous "if you see a stylus, they blew it" approach with the iPhone > Today, of course, Apple ships an excellent stylus that they are happy to sell you for $129. Apple Pencil does not work with iPhone, only with iPads, which... makes sense. Artists use them as drawing tablets. But nobody uses a Apple Pencil with an iPhone.

The Pencil is not a primary interface for iOS it is a specialized device that provides greater resolution than a finger. People love to try to point out how inconsistent and hypocritical Apple is and the criticism is usual unfounded, not thought through,...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#734
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry was making their own hardware and OS to almost the same extent as Apple does today...are you arguing that Apple will be the next BlackBerry ?

I'm not the same poster (and hate the one-word answers with nothing to back them up), but I think BlackBerry's position could be called similar to Meta's. They were already established with lower-cost, lower-spec'd devices. However, BlackBerry couldn't conceive of how more would be transformative. They insisted that the iPhone would flop because it didn't have a keyboard and such. When you said that the iPhone wasn't…

Thanks !

I'd personally compare BlackBerry to Kodak. They had a strong market position, brand and loyal customers. They also had a vision for what should come next, but little to no incentive in fully executing on it, probably didn't want to canibalise the existing sales, while also seeing too much value in their existing customers who only swear by their products.

That's also kinda where I see Apple to a lesser extent: they masterfully executed on the iPhone concept, tried to push further on the iPad, but ultimately see too much value in their current moat to risk losing it. That's where I see the HomePods, Apple TV, Apple Watch being fiercefully bound to the iPhone when they could have been independent products the same way the iPod was. Same way the iPad only got its OS in name and couldn't get much beyond being a gloridied iPhone in many respects.

Any of these products are successful in a vacuum, but given the size of the watch market for instance, the sales numbers for the Watch don't feel as successful as the iPod was.

I'm curious to see how the Vision Pro will work outside of the Apple ecosystem, as at this point it's touted as a display, and that should open the door for more than just being a macbook or apple TV accessory.

On why the iPhone succeeded...until the iPhone 4, it had miserable battery life and crashed all the time, you'd miss phone calls, "you're holding it wrong" was only funny because of how bad we had reception problems. But it did net browsing, photo handling, and emailing better than any device on the market (way better than BlackBerry for half of the world, in the sense that BB was stuck on the western market). So it was a powerful device with a unique proposition, but delightful? hell no. Better than android sure, but it took a long time for it to be smooth and stable IMHO.

On Meta...I have a Quest 2 and completely agree with all the point. It's not good, just "barely good enough" for the price it is. But I'd argue it's here, when the Vision Pro will be real next year, and who knows when we get the next iteration. While I don't see Meta successfuly pushing the field, the sailant point is that the Quest 2 and probably Quest 3 are PC VR compatible, where the Vision Pro has almost no chance to be. This means that the next Beat Saber or Supernatural could come to Steam VR, get tested, and be successfully enough to go to the Quest store, then perhaps the Apple VR store.

I base that on the observation that ML didn't come to Mac or iOS first, but went to the more open windows world first. I don't see new VR creators starting from a Vision Pro when next Christmas gift season will still probably be Quest headsets and perhaps Vive if they can get their price low enough. Perhaps Apple will have a shot at it in 3 years, but we can check back the situation when they arrive there (I'd love an ultra competitive landscape for the next 3 years)

I also find it super interesting that the main use case is as a macbook multi-monitor when macos isn't touch ready. It'd be super excited if they bring a big surprise in that area at the same time the Vision Pro hits.

My worst fear is still that Apple eats all the high resolution display factories of the space, the same way they litteraly consumed all the displays at the peak iOS times and competitors had the leftover, even as the display technology wasn't Apple's.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#735

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

Everything looks like a gimmick until it isn't. Even when the iphone was released nobody would ever be able to comprehend the reach it has today. I think we are waiting for hardware to "catch up" and its getting closer + people's aversion to wearing something like this (aka google glass .. prob too ahead) + the right ecosystem and company to take this to market (maybe apple is the one?).

For me personally I wanted to jump on board the spacial computing for reasons like being able to work in any location but have my awesome setup. Current systems have terrible resolution or are bulky, but I can see the promise. Current entertainment avenues are not tapped (imagine courtside sports seats anywhere, novel ways to engage users, porn, etc.)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The promise of VR is to unlock a world free of the constraints of physics. Where physical distance prevents certain styles of communication and interaction - where physical real estate is finite and therefore rivalrous, etc. There are many things that VR, in principle, could solve... See. You just did the exact same thing that Op is talking about. You didn't describe a single actual use case. You just talked about…

Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc All of those are use cases, and obvious ones. Your argument is “none of these seem compelling to me” (you’re not pulling) which is fine, but don’t ignore the comment’s point that they could soon be compelling to you (which is why they’re being pushed). This is especially true for networ…

> Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc

Literally all of those are possible with your cell phone at slightly lower fidelity. We're not talking about zero to one applications here. Cell phone fundamentally unlocked new applications via mobile connected GPS, computer, camera, screen, accelerometer, internet. Fidelity is not worth as much as people think to as many people as they think. 3D TVs were a flop. People still play and watch low res cell shaded games and movies.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#737

" By contrast, every demo that they showed was a person sitting on a couch by themself." Wait, I thought an Oculus does the same thing too. Its a blindfold on your face, and it doesnt matter if they are alone or in a crowd. Mark has got to be terrified. The power of Apple is the tight and efficient integration of hardware and software. Regarding battery power, I woukd not rule out versions that stream the video and o…

> " By contrast, every demo that they showed was a person sitting on a couch by themself." > Wait, I thought an Oculus does the same thing too. Its a blindfold on your face, and it doesnt matter if they are alone or in a crowd.

I found this hilarious too. The HTC Vive was the "walking around your virtual space" headset, and Meta deliberately marketed the Oculus as couch-based, because they didn't think people actually wanted more than that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The promise of VR is to unlock a world free of the constraints of physics. Where physical distance prevents certain styles of communication and interaction - where physical real estate is finite and therefore rivalrous, etc. There are many things that VR, in principle, could solve... See. You just did the exact same thing that Op is talking about. You didn't describe a single actual use case. You just talked about…

Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc All of those are use cases, and obvious ones. Your argument is “none of these seem compelling to me” (you’re not pulling) which is fine, but don’t ignore the comment’s point that they could soon be compelling to you (which is why they’re being pushed). This is especially true for networ…

Those are all things you can already do! And big, nice screens are already very cheap.

The Vision Pro's problem is that it lets you do something you can already do "some percent better."

But "some percent better" isn't what any of the companies pushing this need, because that doesn't translate into the volumes they need to sell.

"Fundamentally different" does, but no one has described any use case like that.

Examples of "fundamentally different" would be "taking the ability to make and receive phone calls with you, wherever you go" or "taking the ability to browse the web with you, wherever you go."

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#740

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

... the pursuit of... what exactly? That is the puzzle.

I remember similar thoughts about the first wave of tablets. And the first generation or so weren't great. But, the technology matured and now people can use an iPad instead of a full PC for most home uses.

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