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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#221
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s compatible with any Bluetooth controller, but I see no reason it would be a nonstarter. Remember it has full hand tracking. If you want to hold something e.g. a lightsaber or whatever, there is no reason not to. An inert plastic prop should work just fine.

Noone wants to use vr with a 2D game controller (a la xbox)- that completely destroys the point. You want spatially tracked controllers that fit each hand and are meant for vr. Even if there are third party controllers that get around the tracking problems, developers won’t have a controller standard to work against

> won’t have a controller standard to work against

There is no reason this is how it would play out.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although these devices will be compared to each other ceaselessly, I think they're targeting two distinct markets. Apple believes that Vision Pro is the future of personal computing. Meta keeps marketing the Quest as social-connected VR gaming device. The former market is far larger and anything that displaces the PC will be transcendental. Although Meta will sell more units in the short-term due to Apple's pricing,…

> Zuck mentioned that activity and "doing things" are Meta advantages, but people don't want to exercise while gaming or consuming entertainment. A lot of people actually do. There is a whole community built around it.

[flagged]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#223
post #193
post #157

>could be the vision of the future of computing, but like, it’s not the one that I want. We'll have to wait and see with Vision Pro, but it's already pretty clear that Zuckerberg's vision is not one that anyone wants.

20M people bought Quests. More than x-box in the same period. I find this writing off of their sales achievements as really superficial. Whatever else you want to say, they shifted units and the people buying them wanted something he was selling.

The open secret is that the units they’ve sold get very little use. The typical user plays around with it for a few weeks and then it sits on the shelf.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#224

I hope quest pro 2 has the eye tracking, click hand gestures and better resolution for no blurry text.

The Quest Pro already has eye tracking and even the Quest 2 has good hand tracking now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io7_NyTmXv0

But yes, they really do need to improve the resolution, It seems that the resolution was kept similar to that of the Quest 2 due to using the same SOC, which couldn't power a display with a very high resolution.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m much more interested in the Quest 3 than the Vision Pro. At least Zuck’s vision includes BeatSaber.

Is beatsaber a meta exclusive? I appreciate lack of motion controllers announced, but that doesn't mean there wont be any, and maybe hand controls are enough for beatsaber?

It's not a meta exclusive. Not sure why there's so many comments assuming that it is, it's one google search away.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#226
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry

Blackberry was making their own hardware and OS to almost the same extent as Apple does today...are you arguing that Apple will be the next BlackBerry ?

I'm not the same poster (and hate the one-word answers with nothing to back them up), but I think BlackBerry's position could be called similar to Meta's. They were already established with lower-cost, lower-spec'd devices. However, BlackBerry couldn't conceive of how more would be transformative. They insisted that the iPhone would flop because it didn't have a keyboard and such.

When you said that the iPhone wasn't succeeding today based on delight, I'd argue that it's the only reason the iPhone succeeded. BlackBerry had an amazing brand and the ecosystem that you say it the reason the iPhone is successful today - including its own proprietary messenger service. The iPhone came along with delight and overthrew the established players.

If the Vision Pro offers users an experience that they like, it could make the Quest series look like BlackBerries: low-rent devices that were bought as toys for enthusiasts before real devices came along.

The thing about the iPhone is that people could instantly see what they'd enjoy it for. BlackBerries were a status symbol, had some business use cases, and were a nice toy for those who tried to buy distractions. When Apple introduced the iPhone, they showed real web browsing, useful maps (even before GPS), a better iPod than they'd ever seen, YouTube, and more.

With the Vision Pro, Apple is showing me something I could see myself using. I could wear it writing code and have more display space than 3 displays (and still use my keyboard). I could watch movies, I could browse the web, and I could play games. Apple is showing me how it could become an integral part of my usage rather than just a gadget that I'm likely to ignore.

I'm not an expert on the VR/AR space, but it sounds like the Quest devices don't really have the resolution for reading text comfortably which cuts out a lot of usage - just as the BlackBerry devices didn't have good web browsing and other stuff. That could leave the Quest series in the BlackBerry zone where they're trying to fill a similar niche, but they're limited in the things that bring users back to the device rather than it sitting in a corner unused. It also seems like the Vision Pro is likely to be a lot more responsive. Android tends to have a lot of input lag compared to iOS and Apple's M2 processor will run circles around the Qualcomm XR2 in the Quest Pro - plus Apple has a dedicated R1 processor for handling real-time sensor data. The XR2 has one performance core from 3 years ago compared to 4 performance cores in an M2.

Meta can't even buy themselves a CPU that's competitive. Apple's M2 will be 40-50% faster on single-core stuff and it has 4 performance cores instead of 1 performance core in the top-end Snapdragon 8 Gen 2. On multi-core, the M2 is twice as fast. Plus, it has its own dedicated processor for handling all the sensor data!

When BlackBerry saw the iPhone design, they assumed Apple couldn't pull it off. They thought practically the whole inside would have to be battery. They weren't wrong about that, but Apple did pull it off. Is Meta thinking that Apple won't be able to pull off a better experience than their devices? I don't think companies are underestimating Apple at the moment.

Sometimes with tech, it's about getting over a hump. Everyone had been trying to do handheld computers since the 80s - even Apple's Newton development started in the 80s. Apple was the one who finally got it over the hump where it was really useful. Likewise, it's not like headsets are new - Nintendo's Virtual Boy came out in 1995, 28 years ago. But the Virtual Boy didn't get over that hump just as the Newton didn't. With the Quest, if I have to strain to read text, maybe it hasn't gotten over the hump. Again, I'm not an expert in this area, but my point is that it's not just about better specs for the sake of better specs. It's about better specs that overcome a barrier to usefulness. Things like latency and display clarity matter a lot when we're talking about a headset device.

And if we want to attribute Apple's success to its ecosystem, the Vision Pro ties into that ecosystem. You can run apps on Vision Pro and use it as a display for your MacBook. I understand the things I can already do if I had a Vision Pro, not just as a gadget.

The Vision Pro might still be a flop. It's expensive and it might not offer that much more when in the real world. However, the keynote was really impressive to me. It seemed like something I'd get after it had been out for 4 years - kinda like the iPhone. But we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got prescription lenses for my Quest and it was a game changer, if you ever yours it again I'd highly recommend dropping the $80 to get a set.

What does that mean? They actually produce specific Quest glasses?

Most existing headsets have support for adding just the lenses. One example https://vroptician.com/

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MKBHD reveiw of the AVP says Apple WILL NOT make controllers for the AVP. That struck me as odd. (Obviously anyone can connect a bluetooth controller and give users some extra control, assuming this device supports open bluetooth for audio etc.) It is one thing for Apple to claim that their latest gadget does not NEED any controllers for basic navigation and selection. Because they invested so much in perfecting a ge…

I’m sceptical for a very simple reason. When Apple came up with the UI for the iPhone, the functionality of it wasn’t some vague promise, Steve Jobs gloated at length about how intuitive it all was while audiences gasped and applauded over and over. He did this by introducing several new sensors and technologies simultaneously. Not really seeing that this time around.

They have insanely low latency. Every VR has noticeable latency but so far everyone who have tried vision pro says it’s unnoticeable. That’s a huge leap forward. And this is in a device that doesn’t feel like a center block on your head.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#229
post #51

Not being a Facebook helps a lot in my book

Yeah the Quest always gave this corporate dystopia zuckerberg overlord world with NFT sneakers vibe. The Apple one feels like a high quality computing device I can imagine using in a few years.

Relax, nobody uses Facebook products at work.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#230
post #113

If Apple solved the blurry text problem of VR, then they have a huge advantage in the pro market. Every app developer will be working on Apple VR apps: dashboards, AR training material, whiteboarding etc

Fixing blurry text is simply a matter of throwing hardware at the problem though. The $3k+ Varjo headsets had solved it already with OLED screens and resolution close to the Apple Vision Pro. (You need a beefy PC to drive those headsets, so they are not self-contained.) It’s not a long-term competitive advantage. The same thing happened with high-DPI displays. Apple had a momentary advantage with what they call “Reti…

Apple solved first the multitouch accuracy problem. People forget how bad other touchscreen vendors were in 2008. It took other companies at least 4 years to come close to the accuracy of the iPhone displays and keyboard. By that time Apple had already cornered the developer market.
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