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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#141

Post by veidr »

tptacek wrote: post #128
veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

To a first approximation, nobody uses the Apple Pencil as a primary input device on an Apple device.

True, although that might be where my analogy breaks down. Controllers are today the primary input device for pretty much all VR headsets out there. So, maybe the better analogy would be the Blackberry's keyboard.

And we know who won that one. I think Apple is probably right to just double down on bare hands and voice as the input mechanism for spatial computing. I'm just also saying that controllers do have some advantage, so Meta should probably try to leverage it where they can.

(BTW, I myself do use the iPad primarily with the stylus, now that you can use handwriting everywhere just like the Newton MessagePad of yore... but I concede that probably very few people do this.)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#142

Post by dymk »

veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

> This is just like the infamous "if you see a stylus, they blew it" approach with the iPhone

> Today, of course, Apple ships an excellent stylus that they are happy to sell you for $129.

Apple Pencil does not work with iPhone, only with iPads, which... makes sense. Artists use them as drawing tablets. But nobody uses a Apple Pencil with an iPhone.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#143

Post by throw74775 »

truncate wrote: post #138
boloust wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, the Vision Pro eye tracking is extremely good, so for pointing inputs it would probably beat hardware controllers on speed and precision metrics, as well as feeling more direct and natural.

I was thinking if eye tracking can cause more eye strain over long time, cause you'd have to focus your eyes more on something, than say casually moving pointer with a mouse or controller.

From the early reports, there is nobody saying they have to focus in some special way - you just look at the control, and tap.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#144

Post by m3kw9 »

truncate wrote: post #138
boloust wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, the Vision Pro eye tracking is extremely good, so for pointing inputs it would probably beat hardware controllers on speed and precision metrics, as well as feeling more direct and natural.

I was thinking if eye tracking can cause more eye strain over long time, cause you'd have to focus your eyes more on something, than say casually moving pointer with a mouse or controller.

I don’t think I’ve try to click something without looking exactly where the pointer tip goes ever

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#145

Post by jachee »

dymk wrote: post #142
veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

> This is just like the infamous "if you see a stylus, they blew it" approach with the iPhone > Today, of course, Apple ships an excellent stylus that they are happy to sell you for $129. Apple Pencil does not work with iPhone, only with iPads, which... makes sense. Artists use them as drawing tablets. But nobody uses a Apple Pencil with an iPhone.

Also, as a single point of anecdata: My $129 stylus spends the vast majority of the time magneted to the top of my iPad while my fingers do the actual work. It’s not exactly a regret, but as a not-really-an-artist, it’s… probably money I could’ve spent better. :)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#146

Post by smoldesu »

juve1996 wrote: post #110
smoldesu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part is the low end - and Meta has 20 million devices sold there. If the hardware is an obstacle to reaching market fit, I'm pretty confident Meta could get there. It's mostly a matter of scaling up what they already have.

Yea 20 million cheap VR headsets that haven't taken off into the expected market at all. Any hardware company could do that tomorrow. It's easy. Just source the parts. Apple is practically completely vertically integrated. They design their own chips. They have decades of experience in consumer hardware. To make AR/VR into what Zuck wants, his hardware is NOWHERE near what it needs to be. And they don't have the chop…

> It's easy. Just source the parts.

Why is that not a relevant strategy for competing with Apple? Nvidia and arguably AMD could both out-engineer Apple if you're just talking about chips here.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#147

Post by esperent »

truncate wrote: post #138
boloust wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, the Vision Pro eye tracking is extremely good, so for pointing inputs it would probably beat hardware controllers on speed and precision metrics, as well as feeling more direct and natural.

I was thinking if eye tracking can cause more eye strain over long time, cause you'd have to focus your eyes more on something, than say casually moving pointer with a mouse or controller.

My guess is it'll be a personal thing where for a percentage of people it'll be fine for daily use, for another percentage it'll be tiring, and then for a final smaller percentage it'll be truly awful and cause migraines or whatever. Also I have yet to see much talk about how this will work for people with abnormal/poor vision (e.g. abnormal pupils or sclera, vision only in one eye, etc.). Although I do think Apple has a good track record for accessibility?

There's no way know until many thousands of people are using this device how those percentages will pan out.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#148

Post by drcode »

unobatbayar wrote: post #140
veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

Meta Quest 3 really looks like it's made by Xiaomi, matches their entire theme and price range. What made you buy it?

The Apple Helmet is heavy as all out, because they refused to make it out of plastic, and are instead using glass/metal- Definitely an Apple move.

(heavy, considering there's no included battery)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#149

Post by throw74775 »

Laremere wrote: post #135
Foxhuls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend looking at the results people are achieving with Apple’s game porting toolkit just days after it was released. With the hardware that the vision pro is supposed to have, I seriously think it will be the best gaming headset on the market if the final product ends up living up to what was announced.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

It’s compatible with any Bluetooth controller, but I see no reason it would be a nonstarter.

Remember it has full hand tracking. If you want to hold something e.g. a lightsaber or whatever, there is no reason not to. An inert plastic prop should work just fine.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#150

Post by jachee »

Laremere wrote: post #135
Foxhuls wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly recommend looking at the results people are achieving with Apple’s game porting toolkit just days after it was released. With the hardware that the vision pro is supposed to have, I seriously think it will be the best gaming headset on the market if the final product ends up living up to what was announced.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

Don’t some of the existing gaming-oriented headsets do hand-tracking now? Does that not translate to controlling games on those sets?
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