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Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#421

Post by Timon3 »

jacquesm wrote: post #79
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> essentially powerless to do something about it given the family relationship Yeah, the fallout of telling a person they can’t drive is unreal. It took a couple years to go from incredulity towards me to finally accepting that I’m not joking/grumpy/changing my mind. Some bad driving is so egregiously bad though that it can’t be chalked up as a lapse of judgement or something. There is a strange sort of entitlement t…

I have a similar situation with an 87 year old family member that still drives and I've offered to be on call for chauffeur service or to pay for cabs or whatever it takes but they will keep doing it until they either die from other causes or get into an accident, which in my opinion is only a matter of time. So far I've managed to get them to rely on me for two really long rides and at least they no longer go on the…

We're going through a similar situation with my grandpa. He's a great guy and has driven so much through his life, but he's almost 90 and his body just can't handle the reaction times anymore. Still, he insists on driving, and gets irrationally angry if you even come close to questioning his ability. Like, he is a sweet man and is normally very nice, but the second you mention his driving it's like a switch flips and he is suddenly a child with a tantrum.

It's gotten bad enough that we have to tactically lie to him to keep him from any unnecessary rides, but he will not stop if he doesn't have a wake-up call. Luckily he only drives very short distances which are all slow roads, but still, it's frightening to just be waiting for the day something bad happens.

I wish I knew how to bring the topic up in a way we can really talk about it. I have tried being extremely empathetic and non-pushy and careful, which has helped with other topics, but just not on this one. If anyone has tips or ideas I'd love to hear them!

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#422

Post by _trampeltier »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

2 years ago, a brand new Audi (rental) tryed tro chrash me several times into tunnel walls. The car suddenly tryed always a hard right turn.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#423

Post by Perepiska »

jacquesm wrote: post #6

This almost got me into a serious accident, twice. Definitely would not recommend and I switched cars because of it. The last thing I need is buggy software with the capability of instantly changing the trajectory of my vehicle (slippery surfaces, cornering). A brand car as well (MB) so really, really disappointed, what should have been a safety feature actually was the opposite. Dealer said everything was fine so th…

My wife owns a Nissan Qashqai. One day she complained that car started to brake on doing zip merge and this is dangerous on highways. The root of problem was combined back light with stop signal and blinker. Wires to stop signal and blinker suddenly soldered together and there was some current on stop signal wire on turning blinker on. Car's computer decided that brake switch near braking pedal is broken and started to brake. Fixed by cutting one of wires and using new wire around spoiled point.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#424

Post by lesuorac »

doodlesdev wrote: post #298
Drunk_Engineer wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other things, data showed mandatory helmet laws may have had a perverse impact on motorcycle fatalities: http://john-adams.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/motorcycle%2...

Haven't read it completely or paid attention to the data yet, but the conclusion got me hooked: > Conclusion > The foregoing review of the statistical case for helmet legislation suggests that the faith of the BMJ in the reliability of the statistical evidence on the effect of helmet legislation is misplaced. But debates about sophisticated statistics should not be allowed to drown out the voice of common sense. The…

I would challenge the common sense aspect of wearing a helmet makes you feel safer. Like if kevlar pants were mandatory on motorcycles would the same author claim it would increase accidents?

It narrows your visibility and the main feeling of danger (imo) was all the cars that act as if you aren't there (ideally because they didn't/can't see you).

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#425

Post by Grazester »

mistercheph wrote: post #415
hnick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

Bad North American repurtation comes from dealer network afaik.

It came from cheap unreliable cars they made in the early 90's. Those things were through away vehicles. By the early 2000's they were just cheaply made(material wise) but reliability has improved vastly.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#426

Post by o_1 »

Timon3 wrote: post #416
PM_me_your_math wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer errors have killed entire families.

Human errors have killed many, many, many more.

It should be optional period. You want to save lives how about disable stolen cars, so joy ride Kias dont kill pregnant mothers. Imagine emergency braking a F-350 with a gooseneck and two tractors on it. Does not end well.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#427

Post by ceejayoz »

HWR_14 wrote: post #400
notatoad wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like the sort of thing that would be better measured with actual numbers, not just anecdotes from people on the internet. the NHTSA is a pretty cautious organization, and they like numbers. if they've studied it and found that automatic braking will prevent 24000 crashes and 360 deaths per year, i'd be inclined to believe them. having the car brake for me when i'm not expecting it sounds kind of scary to m…

But they didn't study anything real world. They looked at all rear-end collisions, assumed that a percentage would be prevented and did the math to result in the 24000/360 numbers. No analysis of other affects (like sudden stops causing crashes from the cars behind them). No extrapolating from measured data.

> No analysis of other affects (like sudden stops causing crashes from the cars behind them).

At least part of that effect will show up in these vehicles being rear-ended themselves (as they're exhibiting that exact sudden-stop behavior), and that sort of accident should be reduced if all cars come with AEB.

You'll never be able to wipe out all variables in this sort of study, but I don't think the methodology's as flawed as you're asserting.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#428

Post by omginternets »

taeric wrote: post #274
omginternets wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether anyone is actually interrogating the data in that way, not whether it can be interrogated. Large data-driven institutions are notorious for taking a narrow view of things. The problem is precisely a lack of imagination, or perhaps more accurately, critical thought. The parent is precisely engaged in the kind of interrogation that is necessary. If you are aware or an analysis that bears on his…

This feels like sophistry to hinder progress. The OP is literally about studies done. Did you find problems with them? Or are you only imagining problems there could be?

The latter, which is why the actual studies would be most welcome.

But more to the point, there is a track record of narrow interpretation of studies and missing of the big picture. It’s hardly sophistry, it’s critical thought.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#429

Post by sebzim4500 »

eimrine wrote: post #387
ClassyJacket wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive. Vehicle regulation should be based on the overall safest option, not 'dignity' or freedom or individualism anything like that.

> You are not the only person on the road, you are creating risk for other drivers and pedestrians every time you drive. Aren't you notice, my dear safety fan, that the thing you are propagating is effectively adding one more person/actor on the road - a programmer of potentially buggy software, totally not FOSS and without any responsibility for any possible outcomes of possible bugs?

Which is why it should be monitored to ensure that the net result of the rollout is a reduction in accidents/fatalities/injuries/etc.

Re: Automatic emergency braking should become mandatory, feds say

#430

Post by wil421 »

kovacs_ wrote: post #195
hnick wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been…

Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted. Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads. Considering t…

Hyundai had terrible engine and transmission problems in the 2010s. A local dealer was offering 20 year warranties to get them off the lot. There was a Reddit post of a 300k+ Kia that had gone through something like 7 engines and 4 transmissions. They basically 4 new cars worth of engine and transmission parts.

They have great styling that’s comparable to German cars. I wish the US automakers could take some hints. From what I’ve heard the Genesis lineup is very luxurious.

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