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Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

economist.com

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Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#161

Post by bombcar »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #91
bombcar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see where it's headed by looking at some of the cities in Brazil or Johannesburg. When you have money for security and the ability to travel in what are effectively armored cars, the rest of the city can go to hell.

Don’t you then lose out on something. Feels akin to living in a covid lockdown for life. And a monoculture. What I like about Sydney for example is you can go anywhere and feel safe and do stuff.

I agree, but some people seem not to - what they apparently do is create safe "enclaves" where they can wander around and pretend not to see the abject poverty right next door.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#162

Post by elif »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #103
elif wrote: post #53

Maybe it's because the friends i used to visit live in the tenderloin but to me San Franskidro tipped a decade ago. I live in the south side of Atlanta and there is constant gun crime, car theft, gang violence, etc. but to me that is wholely different than being harassed in a targeted manner on the streets for being in a perceived "class." There may be an occasional clash of culture in ATL for sure, but not an outrig…

No one in the streets in Atlanta. Because no one uses the streets in Atlanta outside a car. Atlanta has 930 violent crimes per 100k vs SF’s 715 or so. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities... Atlanta is the ultimate out of sight out of mind city.

thank you for sharing the wikipedia page. it looks like the only category of crime more prevalent in atlanta than san francisco is aggravated assault. simple assault is not included in violent crime statistics in this chart for whatever reason.

I would imagine that this has something to do with atlanta being in an open carry state with no restrictions on gun ownership, and thus more crimes committed involve a gun and would explain why violent crime is statistically higher even though san francisco has 19% more crime overall.

you know, out of chart, out of mind.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#163

Post by RhodesianHunter »

tptacek wrote: post #156
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Mississippi And Arkansas are too damned poor to support the homeless. They've pushed them all out to the West coast where people actually have pocket change to give them.

This is reasonably well studied and not true. California homeless are not, in fact, largely migrants from other states.

Got a source for that?

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#165

Post by RhodesianHunter »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #86
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the bottom ten states for any measurable statistic people care about. Healthcare outcomes, standard of living, GDP per Capita, poverty, educational attainment, obesity, etc. All deep dark red.

California has the highest poverty level of any state in the US under the Census Bureau's Supplemental Poverty Measure. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

If you don't understand per-capita and why raw sums are meaningless in context of the most populous state then I don't know what to tell you.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#166

Post by zmnd »

arp242 wrote: post #136
PaulHoule wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've got zero idea how to repair broken brains. People with severe mental illness are hard to live with. When I was growing up there was a homeless man who spent all day at the public library that people called "The Professor" who was said to be unable to live indoors because he'd wake up screaming every night. We took in a friend who I think had schizoaffective disorder in and she threatened my wife with a knife af…

There are certainly homeless people with serious mental illnesses, but from my experience with talking to homeless people on the street this is not most homeless people. They just fell by the wayside for one reason or the other, and once you're in that position it can be hard to get out – hard to plan for the future if you're worried about getting enough food for today (and/or enough drugs or alcohol) and the situati…

If there were a few studies, and it's overwhelmingly successful, why do you think it's difficult to find the results? SF spends something like 90k per homeless person, conducting an experiment with 3k per person sounds like a drop in a bucket. I bet, showing great results on a group of 100 people, would get more investments into this experiment.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#167

Post by onetimeusename »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #7

San Francisco and Oakland are facing combined close to $500 million budget shortfall and are requesting a federal tax payer bailout. The second major federal bailout in eight years. Oakland has one of the highest violent crime rates in the entire country and they just cut more public safety and health jobs. I can't see how anyone can look at the situation in the Bay area and not anticipate anything other than continu…

It's unfortunate this is legal. It's contrary to the whole notion of anti-federalism that experiments gone wrong in one location can receive investments to continue from the federal government. I'm sure someone will rebut this by saying that the federal government bails out everyone everywhere but that is missing my point. Not every city is suffering a budget shortfall.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#168

Post by rsync »

doo_daa wrote: post #104

Ok... I'm travelling to SF (I live in the UK) for a few days for work this August. I was looking forward to it but now I'm mainly scared! Is it still good to visit but just not to live in? The last time I was there was 2007. I've got a couple of days to myself whilst I'm there. What should I do?

I think you will do just fine.

I live in the SFBA and I continue to go there weekly and bring my family and children there, etc.

I would recommend Jackson square (Cotogna, Blue Bottle, Maison Nico) as a hangout spot, perhaps venturing uphill from there to the Grace Cathedral on the peak of Nob Hill[1] (remember: crime doesn't climb).

I would also highly recommend walking the top of the new transit center which is basically a High Line of the west[2] and is well worth your time and trouble.

If you want to glimpse, but not immerse yourself, in the angst and tension of post-pandemic SF, you can walk to Union Square.

Finally, get yourself to Hayes Valley without crossing through the Tenderloin as that is, without question, ground zero for all of the disturbing headlines.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Cathedral,_San_Francisco

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transbay_Transit_Center

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#169

Post by rufus_foreman »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #165
rufus_foreman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has the highest poverty level of any state in the US under the Census Bureau's Supplemental Poverty Measure. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

If you don't understand per-capita and why raw sums are meaningless in context of the most populous state then I don't know what to tell you.

The numbers are a percentage of people in poverty by state.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#170

Post by robbomacrae »

arp242 wrote: post #136
PaulHoule wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've got zero idea how to repair broken brains. People with severe mental illness are hard to live with. When I was growing up there was a homeless man who spent all day at the public library that people called "The Professor" who was said to be unable to live indoors because he'd wake up screaming every night. We took in a friend who I think had schizoaffective disorder in and she threatened my wife with a knife af…

There are certainly homeless people with serious mental illnesses, but from my experience with talking to homeless people on the street this is not most homeless people. They just fell by the wayside for one reason or the other, and once you're in that position it can be hard to get out – hard to plan for the future if you're worried about getting enough food for today (and/or enough drugs or alcohol) and the situati…

“but from my experience with talking to homeless people on the street“ - you are not going to get a good sense of someone’s mental state by taking to them once. Crazy people can present themselves as completely normal for quite long periods of time. It’s one of the many blockers for family members trying to get them help.
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