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Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

economist.com

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Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, wow, 183 people in 2022. Consider me corrected. At least they aren’t giving them open bus tickets.

What's wrong with giving them open bus tickets that allow them to decide where they want to go?

It is not wrong in a moral sense: people will go where they have the best chance of survival. The problem is that they all choose to go to the same places (which provide the best odds) and then…it is simply another tragedy of the commons.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland is part of the EU and has a national strategy. While migration is easier between member countries, it isn’t unrestricted. You have to live in an EU country for some time before qualifying for welfare there, which means poor people can’t easily shop for the best social welfare. Finland doesn’t put its homeless in institutions, just in semi assisted living situations. Homelessness is definitely a national probl…

>>Finland is part of the EU and has a national strategy. While migration is easier between member countries, it isn’t unrestricted. You have to live in an EU country for some time before qualifying for welfare there, which means poor people can’t easily shop for the best social welfare. Finland doesn’t put its homeless in institutions, just in semi assisted living situations. you have completely missed the Point, Fin…

You can easily move from Texas to California (greyhound flows are still vastly biased that way). You can’t easily move from Greece to Finland. It isn’t comparable at all, in fact, the fallacious premises you hold are why we can’t make any progress on this problem despite dumping billions of dollars of resources into it (LA alone has a $1.3b/year budget for the problem).

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, wow, 183 people in 2022. Consider me corrected. At least they aren’t giving them open bus tickets.

What's wrong with giving them open bus tickets that allow them to decide where they want to go?

Going somewhere they won’t freeze to death overnight is definitely one reason to pick SF / LA / San Diego over many Midwest and East Coast destinations.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#154
post #53

Maybe it's because the friends i used to visit live in the tenderloin but to me San Franskidro tipped a decade ago. I live in the south side of Atlanta and there is constant gun crime, car theft, gang violence, etc. but to me that is wholely different than being harassed in a targeted manner on the streets for being in a perceived "class." There may be an occasional clash of culture in ATL for sure, but not an outrig…

No one in the streets in Atlanta. Because no one uses the streets in Atlanta outside a car. Atlanta has 930 violent crimes per 100k vs SF’s 715 or so. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities... Atlanta is the ultimate out of sight out of mind city.

You could be onto something. Maybe infrastructure which supports affordable car ownership would help SF.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#155
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Density works but isn't it just kicking the can down the road until population growth and inflation drives prices up again?

Im on mobile, so much comments. Yes, but no. The root of the problem is that you cant build land and that's an impossible problem to solve. Supply solutions provide enough time window to think on demand solutions. It is possible, don't get paralized because you'll have a different set of problems in the future.

You can’t build land, but in cities we deal with that by stacking floors on top of each other, turning one square foot of land into 100 if we want.

Trying so hard to preserve rundown two-story crap boxes built in the postwar era just because some folks think that’s what SF should look like isn’t a solution.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to find open-air downtown drug markets, public defecation and decriminalized theft in Mississippi or Arkansas. For that, you need to visit one of our progressive West Coast cities.

That's because Mississippi And Arkansas are too damned poor to support the homeless. They've pushed them all out to the West coast where people actually have pocket change to give them.

This is reasonably well studied and not true. California homeless are not, in fact, largely migrants from other states.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to find open-air downtown drug markets, public defecation and decriminalized theft in Mississippi or Arkansas. For that, you need to visit one of our progressive West Coast cities.

That’s stuff you only find in cities anyway. Virtually all American cities vote Democrat. This is simply a correlation.

Why don't all American cities look in these regards like San Francisco does? They don't, so something is going on. I think there's something broken about San Francisco, and people have been suggesting that for coming up on 3 decades now:

https://www.salon.com/1999/11/03/sf/

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland is part of the EU and has a national strategy. While migration is easier between member countries, it isn’t unrestricted. You have to live in an EU country for some time before qualifying for welfare there, which means poor people can’t easily shop for the best social welfare. Finland doesn’t put its homeless in institutions, just in semi assisted living situations. Homelessness is definitely a national probl…

>>Finland is part of the EU and has a national strategy. While migration is easier between member countries, it isn’t unrestricted. You have to live in an EU country for some time before qualifying for welfare there, which means poor people can’t easily shop for the best social welfare. Finland doesn’t put its homeless in institutions, just in semi assisted living situations. you have completely missed the Point, Fin…

This is about what I would expect from a PHP enthusiast...

Who was the last group that argued "states first!" over people's rights and lives? How did that go again?

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#160
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use the proper term, concentration camps. Y'all need some fences less they make their way back to civilisation. Some guards too. Once you've seen the costs y'all start debating attrition vs. euthanasia for these lost causes. Makes sense right? The losers of American capitalism have proven themselves unworthy to live along side us. No better than vermin. Extermination is the only humane act right? Fascism visibly puls…

I assume if you keep providing free drugs, you don't need fences, and the metaphorical irony of that is almost beautiful. I think for branding purposes, I'd try out the term "party camps", but yes, they are quite obviously concentration camps.

And it might better to have them official and on the books than having ad-hoc ones setup in gullies and under bridges around the city, instead.

And if they're far enough away, no fences are needed.

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