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Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

economist.com

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Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#61

Post by RhodesianHunter »

idlewords wrote: post #38
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the bottom ten states for any measurable statistic people care about. Healthcare outcomes, standard of living, GDP per Capita, poverty, educational attainment, obesity, etc. All deep dark red.

You're not going to find open-air downtown drug markets, public defecation and decriminalized theft in Mississippi or Arkansas. For that, you need to visit one of our progressive West Coast cities.

That's because Mississippi And Arkansas are too damned poor to support the homeless. They've pushed them all out to the West coast where people actually have pocket change to give them.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#62

Post by brightball »

paxys wrote: post #22
franklampard wrote: post #20

The amount of tax revenue and budget is still insanely high. Need to be more efficient

San Francisco spends more on homeless services than most cities its size spend on everything . And the homeless problem is getting worse every year.

That in itself might be a contributor.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#63

Post by papito »

bilqis wrote: post #40
higo wrote: post #32

[flagged]

Well it’s capitalism. End goal of all actors in this economic system is not public good, it’s profit.

If it was all just Capitalism, we'd still be working six-day weeks without health insurance alongside our kids. There has to be a trade-off between satisfying some people's hunger for profit and, well - civilization itself.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#64

Post by lotsofpulp »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #36
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the bottom ten states for any measurable statistic people care about. Healthcare outcomes, standard of living, GDP per Capita, poverty, educational attainment, obesity, etc. All deep dark red.

Exactly. One party rule is bad. The failurs of the GOP to put up viable local candidates in SF and the the Democrats in deep red states are not good for the health of the country

Exactly why we need ranked choice voting.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#65

Post by Barrin92 »

Mizoguchi wrote: post #33
spaniard89277 wrote: post #26

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

Let's ignore that almost 100% of the homeless population in America is addicted to drugs. Having experienced drug abuse myself I know for a fact affordable housing is not going to do anything for these folks. They need treatment, and that unfortunately doesn't happen voluntarily when you are sick.

Yep. As the article points out in SF this is most concentrated but honestly the US overall seems to have largely abandoned institutionalizing the mentally ill or drug addicts.

Rates of drug use or mental illness among the homeless can be as high as 30-50% depending on where and how you measure it, and anyone who has ever met people in that state knows they need to be in professional treatment, by force if necessary.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#66

Post by flangola7 »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #50
papito wrote: post #10

What amazes me is that the Valley gazillionaires are not spending their fortunes to fix their own habitat. They can just BUY the city government they want. Instead, they are shoving mountains of cash to turn the United States into some perverted libertarian fantasy, where the government is weak, paralyzed, ineffectual, and out of their way OH WAIT.

They can't buy the government they want. They'd dump tons of money into candidates that would get crushed due to the insane progressive tilt of most SF voters or they'd get in for a term or two, which is not enough time

Why would progressives not vote for policies that expand housing and provide direct assistance and funding to the homeless?

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#67

Post by civilized »

ioseph wrote: post #56
spaniard89277 wrote: post #26

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

Density works but isn't it just kicking the can down the road until population growth and inflation drives prices up again?

Is there supposed to be a one-time eternal solution, a solution that isn't just kicking a can down a road?

The only way to keep housing affordable without building more, and have some semblance of fairness, would be to stop new building, impose a price/rent cap, then have a lottery to determine who gets the limited supply of houses.

That is a one-time eternal solution that satisfies degrowth ideology, so long as you're willing to ignore the unlucky folks in the lottery.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#68

Post by 0xy »

paxys wrote: post #22
franklampard wrote: post #20

The amount of tax revenue and budget is still insanely high. Need to be more efficient

San Francisco spends more on homeless services than most cities its size spend on everything . And the homeless problem is getting worse every year.

It's all embezzled and frauded away. [1] [2]

[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/CEO-of-S-F-nonprofit-...

[2] https://sfist.com/2023/02/11/saturday-links-lawsuit-alleges-...

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#70

Post by spaniard89277 »

ioseph wrote: post #56
spaniard89277 wrote: post #26

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

Density works but isn't it just kicking the can down the road until population growth and inflation drives prices up again?

Im on mobile, so much comments. Yes, but no. The root of the problem is that you cant build land and that's an impossible problem to solve.

Supply solutions provide enough time window to think on demand solutions.

It is possible, don't get paralized because you'll have a different set of problems in the future.

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