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Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

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Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#281

Post by advael »

jjoonathan wrote: post #191
stilist wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually better than a bad human driver? (And what’s your metric for ‘bad’ — tired, drunk, distracted, a teenager who just got their license but didn’t actually practice enough?) Because I’ve watched enough videos of people having to quickly override Full Self-Driving in ordinary situations that I’m really skeptical that it’s better than most drivers. I’d be willing to say that in practice FSD usage is small en…

Every time one of these threads come around I search youtube for a FSD video and qualitatively evaluate what comes up. If you google FSD fail compilation, you'll get a FSD fail compilation. You can do the same for humans.

And if there's a video of FSD that isn't a "fail compilation", it was probably filmed and/or uploaded because it showed off the FSD doing well, and may even be subject to, effectively, the editorial review of google (whether via algorithms or moderators), which could easily depend on the size of google's advertising relationship with tesla on a given day (or how heavily they want to push the safety of self-driving cars, a business they are also in)

There's so much bias at every step of the process of looking up youtube videos that it lends essentially no credibility to any claim in any direction on this matter

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#282

Post by TheCaptain4815 »

rurp wrote: post #200
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elons point on cars being worth 5x as much with self driving shouldn’t be dismissed. If a car that costs $25,000 to manufacture all of a sudden can be driven 40-50 hours a week automatically, how much is that car now worth? So I totally disagree on that end, as do most investors given teslas enormous valuation.

Elon doesn't actually believe that Tesla cars are about to quintuple in value now, any more than he did 7+ years ago when he first started saying it; that's just marketing BS. > So I totally disagree on that end, as do most investors given teslas enormous valuation. Yes, and most Gamestop investors think the company is going to be the next Amazon. Buying a popular meme stock doesn't make their predictions right.

And he’s admitted self driving was way more difficult than anyone realized, so his dream is gonna be delayed 5-10 years like most of his other major ones.

It’s now 2013, want to see a video of Starship taking off?

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#283

Post by CamperBob2 »

squarefoot wrote: post #237
jjoonathan wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla self-driving is better than a bad human driver. There are loads of bad human drivers on the road. Someone has to be liable, but I don't really care if it falls to Musk or a Musk simp. I do care if we kick yet another key technology out of the US only to have to rent it back years later when someone else picks up the torch. Let's not do that.

Can you be absolutely certain that self driving can deal safely with every possible road irregularities, obstacles, bad, incomplete, damaged or tampered road signs, and other unpredictable events? Self driving on public roads done right is damn hard; probably harder than sending a manned but completely automated spaceship to Mars and back.

That's not the right question to ask. The right question to ask is, "Can self-driving tech kill fewer than 30,000 people a year, as humans do now?"

If you kill the R&D goose or smother it in overregulation, more people will die.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#285

Post by Fatnino »

liendolucas wrote: post #196
advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

I'll go a bit further... Do we really need computers on four wheels? Can't we just have simple electric vehicles without all the high-tech? No distracting screens, no computer for other than just governing the electric engine, no fancy car locks, and so on. I don't understand why we need to put so much technology in a vehicle. Honestly, it seems to me that is absolutely unnecessary tech, ridiculous. I'd like to have…

The flashy tech bells and whistles are there to compensate for the inherent problems with electric cars. They lag in range compared to gas cars, and get absolutely trounced when it comes to putting energy back in the car.

Concrete example: this week I had to drive some people between San Jose and Hollywood. Google maps says that's 5:40 hours over 340 miles. I looked at renting a model 3 for the trip but it simply could not justify itself when compared to the minivan I ultimately rented with 500+ miles range. Not only was I not forced to stop in BFE for 20-40 minutes, I didn't have to stop at all. Arrived with plenty of gas to get to any station in LA I might want (cheapest). And I wasn't even pressed for time, but if I'm slapping an extra half hour onto the trip I'd rather spend it (and actually did) on taking the more scenic US101 route for ~400 miles instead.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#286

Post by Fatnino »

ilyt wrote: post #259
liendolucas wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go a bit further... Do we really need computers on four wheels? Can't we just have simple electric vehicles without all the high-tech? No distracting screens, no computer for other than just governing the electric engine, no fancy car locks, and so on. I don't understand why we need to put so much technology in a vehicle. Honestly, it seems to me that is absolutely unnecessary tech, ridiculous. I'd like to have…

> I'll go a bit further... Do we really need computers on four wheels? Can't we just have simple electric vehicles without all the high-tech? No distracting screens, no computer for other than just governing the electric engine, no fancy car locks, and so on. I'd love to, the problem is it would get some pitifully low NCAP rating (because lack of active securities would bring the score down and I remember it is && de…

You can get a new head unit with android auto for like 200 bucks or there abouts.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#287

Post by throwbadubadu »

asdff wrote: post #141
metalliqaz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the software. They are trying to make due without the kind of sensors that are required to properly sense the immediate environment (LIDAR)

How expensive is LIDAR even? My xiaomi vacuum has LIDAR.

Current ones still 10-20k, some advances and mass production will lower that further. And there are very different LIDARs (frequency, resolution, range!!), the ones in Smartphones and other small devices work very different.. maybe as different as the ultrasonic sensors in your car vs medical ultrasonic (beware, bad comparison actually).

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#288

Post by epolanski »

carstenhag wrote: post #255
liendolucas wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go a bit further... Do we really need computers on four wheels? Can't we just have simple electric vehicles without all the high-tech? No distracting screens, no computer for other than just governing the electric engine, no fancy car locks, and so on. I don't understand why we need to put so much technology in a vehicle. Honestly, it seems to me that is absolutely unnecessary tech, ridiculous. I'd like to have…

Yes, it is necessary. People want it. I want to be able to connect my phone to the car. To be able to use a navigation app. I'm not going back to reading maps (also, I never started).

Navigators have been in cars two decades at this point.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#289

Post by dendrite9 »

dmbche wrote: post #172
bsder wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car Then you haven't been paying attention around the Toyota acceleration scandal. Pedal confusion is remarkably common when you buy a new car/use a rental (your feet rely on muscle memory), and it's not uncommon in the elderly. Most of the Toyota unintended acceleration fits the statistical profile of pedal confusion in the elderly. Howev…

Oh wow! Thanks for the heads up. When skimming about Toyota, I'm getting unsafe floor mats and sticky pedals as the cause of acceleration, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough. The other commenter also brought up that it's a common issue. Guess I'm feeling less safe on the road then ever - and I'll get a manual to boot

Another one crash that I think about semi often was a bus crash in Queens that killed 3 people where the bus was doing 60 in a 30 and blew a red light. The cause was suspected to be a thermos wedged under the brake pedal and pushing on the gas. It seems like a dumb thing to think about sometimes, but I try to be aware of that risk. https://www.core77.com/posts/84534/How-a-Commuter-Thermos-Ma... https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/ny-metro-dropped...

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#290

Post by josefx »

adamwong246 wrote: post #100
advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

"FOSS self-driving cars" is a dream so bold I dare not dream it. In some other timeline, we have had an "internet of roads" built on cooperative standards. Instead we have trendy death-traps that make fart noises sold as status symbols.

Somehow I get OpenSSL vibes from that description. Everyone would use it, nobody would pay for maintenance and the result would be billions of tons of steel controlled by a buggy vulnerable mess filled to the brim with a nightmarish labyrinth of #ifdefs and hacks ensuring compatibility with every embedded chipset that has ever existed.
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