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Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

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Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#201

Post by jones6ofMont »

midjji wrote: post #200
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> but they could have broken it down In the US, that would be an exceedingly bad idea on the part of the Pinkertons. They don't have the same protections law enforcement has: they are treated legally the same as anybody else, which means that in 38 US states they'd be justifying the homeowners use of deadly force.

Yes, and had they continued to insist, showed their guns, and refused to leave he would have gotten away with getting a weapon and shooting them. But most homeowners are both unwilling and unable to take down a couple of armed thugs, assuming he even had a weapon at home that wasnt a fantasy sword replica. Had he escalated and then drawn a weapon, odds are they would have shot him and may well have gotten away with i…

[dead]

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#202

Post by ceejayoz »

zajio1am wrote: post #181
ceejayoz wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol The courts will decide there's "no clearly established law". https://www.theusconstitution.org/litigation/micah-jessop-br... > After local police officers searched the homes and business of Micah Jessop and Brittan Ashjian, more than $100,000 in cash and $125,000 in rare coins went missing. Jessop and Ashjian sued the officers and the City of Fresno under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, a statute that authorizes damages action…

Just sue the police department and not individual cops.

What about these example cases makes you go “ah, yes, the courts really want to impose consequences on cops”?

Best case: you win after years of expensive litigation and harassment from the officer’s buddies, and they pay you a settlement out of your own tax dollars.

Worst case: they beat you to death and get away with it. https://www.npr.org/2022/10/08/1127580159/houston-tipping-la...

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#203

Post by [deleted] »

mindslight wrote: post #180
digging wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas what really needs to happen is for various aggressor parties to be legally restrained from using coercion to begin with. Agreed, but good luck. The police, the "actual" enforcement arm of the legal system, can pick you up without evidence, steal your money, lie to you until you're tricked into confessing to something you didn't do, and call it a successful mission. The legal system is not intended to protec…

The "intent" of the legal system was to enable distributed dispensing of the King's justice, at least from what I understand. In the modern day and age, we can say that there are many types of mal-intents behind various laws, but the legal system itself is what we make it. And describing a problem is the first step towards fixing it.

[deleted]

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#205

Post by jstarfish »

jldugger wrote: post #20
OskarS wrote: post #15

I always wonder about stories like this what the internal process that lead to this insane overreaction was. At some point, did someone really make the decision "lets send Pinkertons to this guy's house, risking an enormous publicity backlash"? It's easy to blame "the legal department" for stuff like this, but it seems extreme even for the most zealous attorney. My hunch is that they probably have some kind of securi…

> Hasbro/WotC has done some sketchy stuff recently, but this seems extreme even for them. I'm told their security executive used to be a pinkerton.

If true, that explains a lot.

This sort of response appears deranged to outsiders, but would be completely logical if you rationalize it as calling in a favor from your former colleagues. For someone like that, it's not a vulgar display of force-- it's just another Tuesday. Optics are overlooked in favor of ease.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#206

Post by beej71 »

hinkley wrote: post #172
WillPostForFood wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get away with that kind of crap all the time That's a big claim, can you cite an example or two of Pinkerton kicking down doors an assaulting the residents?

You’re trying to assert that people making claims based on some knowledge are wrong because they don’t have every fact, while claiming that you have no facts whatsoever . Do you not see how completely fucked up that is? We don’t talk to each other this way here. We shouldn’t talk to each other this way at all. The “gotcha” structure of debate will be the death of public discourse and with it, democracy, and with that…

We're an evidence-based group. I think it's perfectly fine to ask for sources on a claim. Your parent poster didn't say the claim was wrong.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#207

Post by jstarfish »

rootsudo wrote: post #86

1. No legal cause or case. 2. They were basically trespassing, if only the owner asked them to leave. 3. Person invited them in and let them take their property. Geez people really just create the drama they want. Easily should've told them to pound dirt and slam the door in their face. Instead the article goes on about one agent being apologetic, and the others not caring. People really are not aware of their rights…

> Remember, if someone has to ASK you or have you CONSENT you can say no. But it seems people don't know they can refuse anymore.

"Just say no" on police matters is not good universal advice. It can have undesirable consequences.

Two immediate examples:

If you're pulled over and the cop wants to search your car for drugs, you can play roadside lawyer if you'd like. Say no-- it's your right. They'll bring in a drug dog, it'll ring positive (coerced or not), then they proceed to disassemble your car to punish you for being obstinate-- we're talking ripping off door panels and liners to look behind and underneath. Reassembly is for you to deal with. If you have nothing to hide, you save yourself some trouble by just consenting before they call in the dog, which only ever increases the invasiveness of the search. Fail early.

Same for DUI. You don't have to take a roadside sobriety test. Invoking your right to say no means you're getting detained anyway and will spend the next few hours in the hospital lab, which you will be billed for later. If you were drunk, you lose either way, but being stubborn is the costlier approach. Fail early.

You have some rights on land you own. Fewer rights on land you rent. No rights on the road.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#209

Post by rootsudo »

jstarfish wrote: post #207
rootsudo wrote: post #86

1. No legal cause or case. 2. They were basically trespassing, if only the owner asked them to leave. 3. Person invited them in and let them take their property. Geez people really just create the drama they want. Easily should've told them to pound dirt and slam the door in their face. Instead the article goes on about one agent being apologetic, and the others not caring. People really are not aware of their rights…

> Remember, if someone has to ASK you or have you CONSENT you can say no. But it seems people don't know they can refuse anymore. "Just say no" on police matters is not good universal advice. It can have undesirable consequences. Two immediate examples: If you're pulled over and the cop wants to search your car for drugs, you can play roadside lawyer if you'd like. Say no-- it's your right. They'll bring in a drug do…

100% Disagree.

While dogs can ring positive for coerced, you want to make sure the search is as illegal as possible so that any evidence can be tossed, no evidence == no case. A dog can signal falsely for "drugs" but let's say they found $8000, that you have a receipt from the bank? While they will attempt civil forfeiture -- the dog was only for drugs - meaning no drugs found == better attempt to get that case thrown. Same for other medications, or any contraband.

For your DUI example, many a lawyer I talked too and in my university days every law/pre-law professor stated if that ever happened, they would always refuse because it does not present evidence easily - a few hours in a hospital lab means any test result then will be delayed, and lets say you were drunk, (something I don't condone) - you now have more time to sober up and the further test results will be farther from when the stop was done.

It is much easier to defeat a DUI Charge if there was no evidence at roadside that you were actually impaired. Even if your car is towed and you're billed high for the forced blood test and what not - it is still cheaper than a DUI charge which runs $15,000 nowadays, not including the future insurance waivers/SR-22/FR-44 probably required.

You have rights, it is much easier to win a case/have your case dismissed if there is proof the police violated your rights. Lawyers glee and prosecutors will drop cases where there is overt police rights violation.

I would say depending on the area, and on your race/skin color is more of a issue if you're being pulled over vs not consenting to a search because bias exists and LEO will try and try more - but with dashcams and such - that's changing, marginally. Though the video of the uber lawyer lately has been making the laps, to the point where that officer in question did get a promotion.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#210

Post by bart_spoon »

throwaway743 wrote: post #189
prepend wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was d&d, I’m talking about magic stuff. Just off the top of my head, they just seem generally incompetent and people keep buying. Here’s some stuff I remember: -underprinting (legends) and overprinting (fallen empires) -saying they wouldn’t reprint things (reserved list) then reprinting some, and monkeying around with it for 5 years -original magic online in early 00s was completely poorly built at the time of l…

To add, regarding Arena at least, it seems like all they give a shit about now is releasing new and older cards meant for commander/brawl. Sure those formats are fun, but they should still focus on the core format and at the very least release some older sets in their entirety rather than just for the sake of commander/brawl play. Also Idk maybe im just getting old and grumpy, but I still love the original format.

Commander is the core format these days. It feels weird to me as someone who grew up on Standard/Modern, but Commander is apparently the most popular by far now. Arena is one of the only places it isn’t, and that’s because Commander isn’t actually supported. But paper still drives card development, not Arena, at least for now. But the rumor is they are working on getting Commander into Arena in the next year or two.
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