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Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

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Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#151

Post by jeffwask »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #116
philsnow wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally never heard of this group. "Pinkerton" is the name of a Weezer album as far as I'm concerned.

You should probably read up on some history. They have played a pivotal role (as the antagonists) in the labor movement in the United States. They were involved in some of the largest insurrections after the Civil War. Their name is scattered throughout American history, and not for their good deeds.

100%

Movies and TV often sow them as a policing the West in the early days of the US but what they should be known for is as thugs and strike breakers for hire who intimidate and threaten whoever you ask while providing distance and cover.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#152

Post by cfeduke »

mikestew wrote: post #133
hinkley wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go back to the Labor movement, the Pinkertons practically committed war crimes. When people say the police evolved from a misanthropic idea of keeping the peace, they are specifically thinking of the Pinkertons as an example. Hired thugs meant to keep those in power in power, not to protect the citizenry.

If you want to go back to the Labor movement... I do not. I would like an example from within the last, say, 75 years. Regardless, you didn't even cite an example.

> I would like an example from within the last, say, 75 years. Regardless, you didn't even cite an example.

From Wikipedia[0]:

"In 2020, Matthew Dolloff, an unlicensed security guard contracted through Pinkerton, shot and killed Lee Keltner, a conservative protestor in Denver, Colorado."

Not exactly kicking down doors and assaulting the residents, I know, but hopefully we can agree that its adjacent.

Of course the premise is that "they get away with it all of the time." If such examples existed, citing them would be contrary to the act of getting away with it. I'm not saying that I know for a fact that the Pinkertons or other such similar organizations "get away with it." But I know the United States has produced numerous examples of police officers getting away with it, and in my mind it's very possible that detective agencies do all manner of reprehensible things, especially to people in poverty, and get away with it.

We're hearing about it in the case of a YouTuber because they have a platform.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#153

Post by midjji »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #115
midjji wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got r…

They get away with that kind of crap all the time That's a big claim, can you cite an example or two of Pinkerton kicking down doors an assaulting the residents?

Nothing that isn't stories by friends working for securitas (the main company for which pinkerton is a brand), or anecdotes. I am certain I could find a story like that just by googling for it, but real statistics are what are interesting, and I cant be bothered to research it. So let me instead ask, what evidence do you have that they are better than the police? because that is what you are arguing. In general you can become a security guard in a tiny fraction of the time it takes to become a police, and they have much lower requirements compared to becoming a police. Oh and by the way, most of them believe themselves to have the same powers and protections as police, that they do not does not matter much. The real shitheads get pruned pretty quickly, but the middling level assholes instead sometimes get shifted into one of the offbrands.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#154

Post by newsclues »

duxup wrote: post #129
nickthegreek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally with fists full of cash.

I wonder if they just offered this guy a few grand how it would have gone? Maybe really well?

He could have been placated with the cards he ordered some extras or merch.

Hiring security was the more expensive option, in short and long term.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#155

Post by mikestew »

hinkley wrote: post #146
mikestew wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go back to the Labor movement... I do not. I would like an example from within the last, say, 75 years. Regardless, you didn't even cite an example.

I don’t know if the Pinkertons directly, but their competitors have caused a lot of problems during our eternal war in the Middle East. That’s a problem of using a private police force like an army, and while the US government and military paid the bills and made requests, the triggermen bear their share of the blame. You’re trying to make an extraordinary claims play to deflect this part of the conversation and I’m…

I don’t know if the Pinkertons directly...

Then you probably should not have responded to a question specifically asking for an example of Pinkerton kicking down doors. As you've clearly stated that you can't answer the question, but rather prefer to go off on some vaguely related tangent, then I will go on about my day.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#156

Post by wahnfrieden »

danesparza wrote: post #139
ldoughty wrote: post #10

Sounds like the buyer should have ASKED for the sheriff.... Private police threatening fines and jail time? Let them say that with law enforcement around for any follow up lawsuit. A purchase was made and the wrong product arrived at his door.. the seller had legitimate reason to have the product, but broke a street date... The customer did not ask for unreleased product... Sounds like the dealer is at fault, but not…

Please please PLEASE call 911 the next time this happens. This is an extra-judicial shakedown. There are consequences for idiots who pretend to be police like this. They would be the ones going to jail if this person had called 911.

Your advice is to add cops to the Pinkertons?

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#157

Post by joecool1029 »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #126
phyllistine wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love HN but the demographics of the users makes them more likely to assume the cops will do the correct action, when that does not always play out.

This scenario already happened with Jason Chen/Gizmodo and the iPhone 4G prototype that was left at a bar, and what happened is the cops raided his house and seized his stuff. You would think HN folks would at least remember that…

Not remotely the same thing, that was cops executing a search warrant signed by a judge. https://www.businessinsider.com/a-san-mateo-court-has-withdr...

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#158

Post by midjji »

hinkley wrote: post #124
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> but they could have broken it down In the US, that would be an exceedingly bad idea on the part of the Pinkertons. They don't have the same protections law enforcement has: they are treated legally the same as anybody else, which means that in 38 US states they'd be justifying the homeowners use of deadly force.

I’m shocked the Pinkertons still exist. None of the bigger unions tried to pull strings to get them destroyed for past atrocities against the labor movement?

They dont really, they are just an offbrand for securitas who bought up the trademark and brand after they went under.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#159

Post by pc86 »

midjji wrote: post #153
WillPostForFood wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get away with that kind of crap all the time That's a big claim, can you cite an example or two of Pinkerton kicking down doors an assaulting the residents?

Nothing that isn't stories by friends working for securitas (the main company for which pinkerton is a brand), or anecdotes. I am certain I could find a story like that just by googling for it, but real statistics are what are interesting, and I cant be bothered to research it. So let me instead ask, what evidence do you have that they are better than the police? because that is what you are arguing. In general you c…

They're not arguing that they're better than police, they're saying that police have protections other people don't, and those protections are the only reason they feel comfortable kicking doors down. You're very, very unlikely to find some private security guy willing to kick a door down for some trading cards, because pretty much the first time they're wrong about it they're going to jail. You don't get qualified immunity as private security.

And that's an awfully long paragraph when "no" would have sufficed just fine.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#160

Post by cfeduke »

jdm2212 wrote: post #145
wongarsu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raid: noun > 1a: a hostile or predatory incursion > 1b: a surprise attack by a small force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid alternatively wiktionary: > raid (plural raids) > (military) A quick hostile or predatory incursion or invasion in a battle. > An attack or invasion for the purpose of making arrests, seizing property, or plundering. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid Raid seems like the perfec…

How is knocking on someone's door an "incursion" or a "surprise attack"?

It's this definition of raid: "quickly and illicitly take something from (a place)" (versus the law enforcement version, where illicit is used instead to describe the goods which are taken by the police).
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