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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#731

Post by Aerroon »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #306
christophilus wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

> if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies Imagine you didnt have law on shape and voltage of ordinsry power plugs in a house, and if you buy a samsung power socket to ibstall in your house, you mist buy samsung fridge and samsung washing machine and samsung hair dryer

But we already kind of have this problem. If I order a microwave from the UK and ship it to my other European country, then I'm already dealing with a power plug that is incompatible. This also means that the power plugs can't be optimal (ie there's room to improve), because all the different variants can't all be optimal at the same time.

And yet, actually ever improving the power plug design is probably never going to happen.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#732

Post by stephc_int13 »

revelio wrote: post #604
yrro wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASN.1 is good though. What sucked was everyone implementing their own serde tooling. In another, better world we'd have consolidated around ASN.1 DER and not wasted all that time and energy with XML, JSON and so on.

If it was really that good there'd be plenty of great open source implementations and tools by now, but in reality nobody wants to use it. Note that protobuf didn't have this issue.

Have you heard about the ASN.1 implementation by Fabrice Bellard?

https://bellard.org/ffasn1/

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#733

Post by Beldin »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

> What happens when there is a better USB-C plug

Probably something similar to what happened when the EU mandated mini-USB B for phones and USB-C was rolled out.

Just in case: every phone used to have its own proprietary charging port. Typically (but not always) contemporary models of the same brand had the same port, but that was it. This led tp a ton of chargers - and e-waste, because 2 years later the charging port had, of course, changed.

The EU came and legislated this nonsense out of existence - and good riddance to that!

That was mini-usb-b. We've moved on to usb-c nowadays, and the EU is expanding the legislation to cover most chargeable items.

Your worry is relevant, but the EU's track record in this particular field is absolutely stellar and more than sufficient to assuage me.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#734

Post by mmmmmbop »

Longhanks wrote: post #654
mmmmmbop wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this will be required by the DMA as mentioned in another comment, the more accurate phrasing would be "How about Apple simply not selling their phones in the EU (if they don't like it)?" Just like nobody's forcing a consumer to buy an iPhone if they don't like it, nobody's forcing Apple to do business in the EU.

God, sometimes I really wish they would do just that. Just a week ago, Germany launched a public transport ticket that can only be acquired via an app. Imagine the outrage if suddenly every iOS owner could not use that service (paid with tax money of course) that entirely depends on US software services because the companies decided the EU bullying is just enough for now (just like Google did with China). If the EU w…

The ticket you are talking about can be purchased via website. [0]

Apart from that, I'm not sure I see your point. If Apple left the EU market, their stock would tank, and Google would be delighted to pick up the market share.

Your framing is interesting, by the way. When Apple puts restrictions on its users, that's corporate freedom. When the democratic legislative process of the EU results in restrictions on Apple, that's bullying.

[0] https://www.bahn.de/angebot/regio/deutschland-ticket

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#735

Post by adrr »

joenathanone wrote: post #350
sokoloff wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That brings up an interesting question: “Is NEMA 5-15 in fact standardized by force of law?”

Yes, via building/construction codes.

And we are stuck on AC which is a terrible and wasteful way to move electricity. How much energy is wasted converting AC to DC?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#736

Post by theonlybutlet »

Auracle wrote: post #500
viraptor wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a jaded view of the EU out to get you by (checking notes) ignoring the directive and not consulting with the experts so that they can force you to use a specific connector even when better options get created... Sure, I don't think we see the same reality.

First the bureaucrats would need to care. That’s a pretty big hump - people don’t like change. Instead of people going “yay, we’ll all finally be on the same connector” you’re going to have people going “no, I already have all of these cables and USB-C is good enough!” You’ll also need the various players on the other side to invest in development for something new with absolutely no guarantee that the EU will approv…

How did we get any USB standard then? The EU would listen if the USB implementors forum came out and said this is our replacement for USB-C.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#737

Post by nickpp »

baq wrote: post #713
revelio wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do see that we're discussing the underlying principle here, right? Please, try to put aside the specifics of the exact hardware and understand that what matters here is the EU's descent into attempting to centrally plan technology. This tendency isn't specific to power cables, it's a clear trend across many sectors.

The EU had already centrally planned my 240V wall sockets and RJ-45 Ethernet plugs and I’m seriously grateful for it. I’ll happily accept USB-C for low voltage low amp DC charging on that list.

The are multiple wall power plugs standards in use today in EU. And I am not aware on any being mandated on the device itself. And RJ-45 is so big that it wouldn't even fit on the slim edge of my MacBook Air - I would love for it to be replaced with some modern alternative.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#739

Post by maweki »

nickpp wrote: post #730
fbdab103 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was exactly the phone charging situation before the EU made a similar proposal[0]. Previously every phone brand and model used a bespoke charger so that you were forced to buy a spare charger from the vendor. Of course Apple continued to do its own thing by skirting the intent of the law. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

That hasn't been true in quite a while, the market has unified around two standards (lightning and usb-c) without EU's intervention. Their previous recommendation from 2010 was for micro-usb and it was toothless as it wasn't a mandate. The current authoritarian power play for pushing usb-c on Apple is completely unwarranted by the market conditions. It's pure politics.

You make it out like the fear of regulatory action does not exist.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#740

Post by troad »

DJHenk wrote: post #219
perryizgr8 wrote: post #151

I don't understand the rationale. Does the EU not have a free market where consumers can choose what they pay for? If lightning connector is an important enough issue for someone they can choose not to buy an iPhone. There are n number of alternatives available in the market, unlike the software ecosystem situation.

Having lots of alternatives is not always beneficial for society as a whole.

> Having lots of alternatives is not always beneficial for society as a whole.

A European sentiment if I've ever heard one.

I'm pleased that Brussels has cracked the case of what the Greater Good is, and what sacrifices we must all (mandatorily) make in pursuit of it. I'll let Plato know, I'm sure he'll be thrilled.

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