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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#271

Post by topspin »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #62

This is great. I've been interested in understanding how the Soviet economy worked for a long time. I've found only a handful of articles like this one. Unless you're willing to delve into hardcore economic academic papers (I am not) it's hard to get an actual informed perspective. Most Googling around will basically return you the rote response that it basically didn't work. Which, despite the many issues with the S…

> I've been interested in understanding how the Soviet economy worked for a long time.

After the '91 collapse Western scholars briefly got their hands on some Soviet archives and worked to piece this together. The Soviet economy was run by fixers; Party people that answered to Party leadership and mediated the difference between the State's official socialist schemes and reality. The system was opaque and kleptocratic in the extreme and, except for a brief period after the collapse, it appears not much has changed.

A concise survey of the archives can found found in: "Behind the Facade of Stalin's Command Economy: Evidence from the Soviet State and Party Archives" (Paul Gregory, 2001).

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#272

Post by gpgsource »

kfrzcode wrote: post #68
pierat wrote: post #49

Sigh, that's not always easy with many of the people here with "unlimited PTO" without guaranteed minimums. Most of the unlimited clauses are based on manager approval. The base HR justification for unlimited PTO is to not have to pay out unused PTO when they leave. Naturally, it sounds good on face, but leads to less PTO taken due to inherent worries of "how much is too much", lack of manager approval, and the like.…

20 + 10 = one full calendar month (that's 6 business weeks) of work. You're asking for more than six weeks per year where you can just get paid for not working. Sure, there's plenty of holistic value-add to being a well rested, happy employee, but if the difference for your happiness and well-being is somewhere above having six weeks of paid vacation (plus assumed sick days as needed for actual sicknesses) and gettin…

"You're asking for more than six weeks per year where you can just get paid for not working."

No. PTO (and other benefits) is compensation for work. It's not free money.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#273

Post by Koshkin »

obscurette wrote: post #233

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there…

> Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi.

That's not true. Not to idealize anything, there were people, of course, who were poorer than average for one reason or another, but once in a while an average person could actually afford a vacation in Sochi and other areas around Black Sea. (The quality of accommodation is another question, of course.) Also, union members (i.e. pretty much everyone) were occasionally given an opportunity to spend time in spas ("sanatoriums") there. And if you remember, people took vacations that were usually one month-long!

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#274

Post by lawrenci »

nradov wrote: post #189
lawrenci wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These examples highlight the deficiencies of the Soviet economy, and it's evident that such failures caused considerable suffering among the population. Nevertheless, given more time to engage in activities akin to the first two examples, and separated from the threat of malnourishment, I believe I would experience greater happiness and a stronger connection to both my food and community. Through shared struggle, bar…

Well what's stopping you? How much time do you spend on HN and social media? You can use that time to grow vegetables instead.

I used to go foraging for mushrooms with a close friend. That friend developed depression due to his perceived failures to keep up in the rat race of career advancement, and committed suicide last year. I know this because of some pretty explicit conversations I had with him about feelings of inadequacy due to money and career path. So now I don’t have a friend to forage mushrooms with. I can do it by myself, but that doesn’t really address the alienation issue.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#275

Post by gjulianm »

waboremo wrote: post #148
ActorNightly wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very good idea for teenagers and younger adults to break them out of the online world. For working class though, its probably best not to force people to socialize. The thing that doesn't get talked enough about in socialization is that its not all positive, and people have different tolerance to each others bullshit.

On the contrary, it might be crucial for the working class that is growing more isolated by the day and prevent a lot of the negative socialization you're referencing. Which imo stems from a lack of experience of handling conversations (we really do not get enough practice outside of people we already have lots of common ground with, ie our friends), and also an increased sensitivity from this isolation "choice".

I don't think that people are "inexperienced" in conversations nor that the negative socialization comes that much from not sharing a common ground. A lot of negative socialization can come from people not having an interesting conversation, or being too self-centered, or repetitive, or convoluted, or not knowing when to just leave the other person alone.

I am also skeptical of the fact that "the working class is growing more isolated by the day". Looking around my environment, it seems that the advent of social networks (FB, Whatsapp, Instagram, etc) has made it far easier to keep in contact and to organize meetings with people. I know that I would be socializing far less if the only means of communication we had were the phone and letters.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#276

Post by ido »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117
samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

Are "many Westerners" really expecting China to be a dystopia? I'm a westerner and my impression of the Soviet Union (and now Russia) was intuitively dire (probably exaggerated compared to reality) but my intuitive expectations of China isn't really.

I feel like "westerners" today treat China like they used to treat Japan in the 70s/80s, not like they used to treat the Soviet Union. There's plenty of positive reporting about how things "just work" in China compared to the west (especially constructing infrastructure) and strong economy development.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#277

Post by vorpalhex »

whitemary wrote: post #241
obscurette wrote: post #233

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there…

> there were classes within soviet society Karl Marx's definition of communism was literally "a classless society"

Communism is a process leading to a utopic state. Even Marx makes this clear in his manifesto.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#278

Post by vorpalhex »

janalsncm wrote: post #228
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

American police are actually much more scary tbh. Physically, many Chinese cops are fairly scrawny and usually don’t carry guns, maybe just handcuffs and a baton. Their main weapon is their body camera. Sometimes they do carry guns but it’s not the norm imo. I will add one more aspect is the almost complete absence of traffic cops. A lot of the most dangerous situations with cops in the US have been at traffic stops.…

Every cop I saw in Guangzhou had at least an old makarov in an aging holster, except the metro police.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#279

Post by MSFT_Edging »

iudqnolq wrote: post #266
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

.

If you ask Chinese people outside of China, they also really don't care. They know what happened, its like the Kent State shooting for them.

The west severely exaggerates every bad thing that happens over there then pretends like every misstep is solved with execution. Sure there's censorship but its exaggerated to a level of fiction in the west, like a movie that's "based on real events".

More than likely if you ask a Chinese person in China about Tiananmen, they'll see you like one of those Nazi streamers who call girls whores in public. Just a weird edgelord looking to stir up trouble.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#280

Post by bscphil »

avodonosov wrote: post #172

I haven't finished the text, but it's a bad write up. The author tries to make it impressive, and for that brings unneeded speculations. > Failing to applaud a speech by Joseph Stalin could get a person arrested. So could listening to bootlegged copy of the Beatles. The Beatles were published in USSR officially, as well as many other western artists. At least in late USSR. I still have many those vinyl discs. In earl…

> Failing to applaud a speech by Joseph Stalin could get a person arrested. So could listening to bootlegged copy of the Beatles.

Moreover, Stalin died in 1953. The Beatles were not even formed until 1960. It's fair too sweeping a way to paint a picture of a very complicated country.

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