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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#241

Post by whitemary »

obscurette wrote: post #233

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there…

> there were classes within soviet society

Karl Marx's definition of communism was literally "a classless society"

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#242

Post by mempko »

legitster wrote: post #209
r00fus wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many cultures do not share the US's "unfettered freedom of speech". Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? So yeah, it's complicated.

> Even within the US, we talk a big game but - have you ever felt it wise to "exercise free speech" with law enforcement? Uhhhh... we literally just had an entire summer of people shutting down cities to voice their frustration over police. My personal unwillingness to start cursing out every cop I see is not actually a good litmus test for my freedom of speech.

Ok, but without consequence? There were a thousands of arrests and people hurt/killed voicing their frustration. Even journalists were shot at with rubber bullets and arrested. Yes, that's right, journalists were shot at and arrested by police in the US.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#243

Post by [deleted] »

fweimer wrote: post #101
evilspammer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's more to prevent employers from making you work during vacation

Literally, it's about preventing taking a second, paid job during vacation from your first employer. So it's not entirely clear whether this is about protecting employers or employees. As far as I know, non-competes for blue collar workers are uncommon (or at least they used to be).

[deleted]

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#244

Post by stcroixx »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117
samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

Is it allowed for foreigners to travel to where the forced labor re-education camps are? I’d assumed it was not.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#245

Post by clnq »

andrewmutz wrote: post #95
EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

I clicked through to the twitter account that posted the tweetthread and it does not seem like the most reliable source of information.

The information presented by the quote and JSTOR is accurate, at least insofar as it reveals that a significant number of individuals in USSR went on either tourist tours or sanatoria each year for rejuvenation.

In the 90s, state sanatoria maintained their popularity in post-Soviet countries. To this day, travel agencies in some of these nations primarily focus on two types of journeys: relaxation and "learning" holidays. This deeply ingrained cultural practice persists throughout the region.

I don't know how many and which groups of people went on annual holidays in the USSR, but I know it wasn't an insignificant number from what I've observed living there as a kid.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#246

Post by robertlagrant »

arsome wrote: post #33
ahelwer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prolonged periods of time spent without obligation to work for pay is one of the greatest luxuries you can have in this life. People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Sabbatical, basically, although even sabbatical often comes with obligations for self-improvement serving the company offering it. A lot of discourse on working hours revolves around decreasing the hours worked per week. I would also…

> What is all this wealth and automation and productivity growth for, then? Why, more wealth and automation and productivity growth to no end of course.

It's to provide goods and services for less, and to give a competitive advantage against other brands.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#247

Post by robertlagrant »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #99
explorer83 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know all of these things sound nice. But in the real world a lot of businesses aren't making the kind of profit that allows workers to just take time off and not generate any revenue for the company. Sure there are some that could pull it off. But most small businesses aren't making that kind of profit. Unless you are assuming workers are supposed to take unpaid time off. But then how are they going to afford to ta…

Most of the world has statutory minimum of vacation days that also applies to small businesses, and somehow those businesses manage to survive. They just include it in their business model and market finds new equilibrium.

All of the industries that moved to other countries that are willing to provide goods for less did not survive.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#248

Post by lnsru »

jtbayly wrote: post #190
boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

Haga has a flagged comment pointing out the purpose of this policy, and I can't figure out why it is flagged, so I'll just quote what the article says: "It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. They were all part of a collective and that umbrella united them. In the Soviet Union, after all, the collective—not the family—was the most important social…

Sure. And couple unknowns were KGB agents. So people learned very early what to say to strangers and what to keep for themselves.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#249

Post by saiya-jin »

obscurette wrote: post #233

I lived half of my life in Soviet Union and would say that this article is simplification with sources more from instate propaganda than from reality. The article basically describes russian upper middle class (yes, there were classes within soviet society) after WWII. Most of people couldn't even dream about Sochi. Soviet Union was huge and differences between regions, classes, nationalities etc were very much there…

Yeah as somebody coming from former Czechoslovakia, it was hard for us to travel too, even in 80s. My parents were forbidden to travel to the sea to former Yugoslavia for example, since it was neutral country that one could use to escape to Austria. Heck, even travel to very much communist Poland nearby was very hard, special approvals from apparatchiks were required and those were only granted to regime-friendly folks. Not unlike current China for example.

But Soviet union from my late grandparents tales was different reality, they used chewing gums and other stuff we considered common as currency much more sought-after by locals than rubles. It makes sense regime didn't want for people tt discover massive discrepancies between various parts of eastern bloc. As whole world saw few years after, mighty soviet union was actually pretty fragile mosaic with pieces desperately wanting freedom from often horrible and incompetent central Russian management.

One of the reason why eastern part of EU is not so happy with uber-centralization in Brussel - we saw what level of inefficiency such approach brings.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#250

Post by 908B64B197 »

martythemaniak wrote: post #73
EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

As always, the gap between reality and propaganda is hilarious. Soviet workers and their colonized subjects spent their leisure time filling in for the massive failures of the state to provide anything resembling their promises. Some excerpts from my childhood: * Family outing to the fields to harvest carrots to pickle for the winter. This would be bartered with other families who went to harvest other veggies, so th…

I wonder why young Poles, Romanians and Ukrainians really want to come west and join the EU.

Wouldn't have anything to do with this.

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