Vacations in the Soviet Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#151

Post by vkou » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #103

There are a bunch of zoomers out there who un-ironically claim Communism is the ideal way of life. I've worked with some of them. I still can't fathom what's going on in their brains.

There's a bunch (Well, a lot) of people at all ages who unironically think that we've reached some kind of end of history, and that our current state of society resembles some kind of maximum.

They are generally unable to engage with good-faith criticisms of the parts of it that don't work.

Don't let it get to you.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#152

Post by kortilla » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #117

samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too). You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving…

The dystopia is right in your face. VPNs don’t work well and with them turned off there is a ton of stuff you can’t access.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#153

Post by lawrenci » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #73

EarthIsHome wrote: post #2

Happy May Day! Here's a Twitter thread [0] that has excerpts/paraphrases from an old Soviet pamphlet called "How Soviet Workers Spend Their Leisure." (rolled up version [1]) You can find a scanned version of the pamphlet here [2]. There were many of these pamphlets published. One day I will scan them and post them. There was one on Waterways & Transport in the USSR, one about Soviet theater, one about the food indust…

As always, the gap between reality and propaganda is hilarious. Soviet workers and their colonized subjects spent their leisure time filling in for the massive failures of the state to provide anything resembling their promises. Some excerpts from my childhood: * Family outing to the fields to harvest carrots to pickle for the winter. This would be bartered with other families who went to harvest other veggies, so th…

These examples highlight the deficiencies of the Soviet economy, and it's evident that such failures caused considerable suffering among the population. Nevertheless, given more time to engage in activities akin to the first two examples, and separated from the threat of malnourishment, I believe I would experience greater happiness and a stronger connection to both my food and community. Through shared struggle, bartering, and communal work, we can create a sense of connection that is absent from the isolation brought about by specialization, which, although more economically efficient, also contributes to the social problems present in western society.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#154

Post by catiopatio » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

atdrummond wrote: post #127

samstave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

I encourage you (barring safety concerns) to travel to countries whose governments are considered illiberal. Some of my most enlightening trips were to DPRK, Russia, China, Turkmenistan, Brunei. You learn a lot about how the western media tends to exaggerate for political ends.

No, you learn a lot about how illiberal governments treat foreign visitors from wealthy western countries, and how they leverage their power to control what you as a tourist see and hear.

The first country you list is the DPRK, who are famed for carefully stage-managing any visit by western tourists.

If you want an honest view of those places, you have to speak with people who aren’t risking their lives or livelihoods if they tell you the truth.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#155

Post by nicbou » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

justinpombrio wrote: post #34

fweimer wrote: post #23

> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s. Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly. Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everyt…

What do you mean "legally required"? E.g. is there a law that says that specifically, or a common interpretation of a law that says something vaguer, or a common clause in employment contracts, or were you being metaphorical and it isn't actually legal? I'm from the US, and this sounds very strange to my ears.

I don't have the immediate texts at hand but I cite sources in my guide about taking time off in Germany. The law is very unambiguous about what vacations are for. A nice example is that if you get sick during your vacation, it counts as sick days and you can use your vacation days at a later time.

https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/vacation-days

My guides about sick leave and sabbaticals just add a bit of context. Sick days are really well protected.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#156

Post by legitster » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #97

>"The Soviet Union's approach to paid time off (PTO) was unique, as it not only provided workers with time off but also determined how they spent it" Utter bullshit. I was able to travel to every part of USSR (except of course restricted areas and abroad) during my vacation time without any problems. USSR had gobbles of big problems and general lack of freedom but vacations were not part. As a matter of fact I spent…

I think there is not a distinction being made between "time-off" and "vacation" - the author seems to be focused entirely on travel destinations and resorts.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#157

Post by kfrzcode » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

The_Colonel wrote: post #114

kfrzcode wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 + 10 = one full calendar month (that's 6 business weeks) of work. You're asking for more than six weeks per year where you can just get paid for not working. Sure, there's plenty of holistic value-add to being a well rested, happy employee, but if the difference for your happiness and well-being is somewhere above having six weeks of paid vacation (plus assumed sick days as needed for actual sicknesses) and gettin…

Honestly, your suggestion that the desire for more time off must be caused by some mental problem is pretty rude. I also don't understand why is it such a mystery that people might want to pursue other interests than just work and that requires time off work. Here in Europe, 20+10 is the bare minimum, with most people getting more and still striving for more.

I'll concede rudeness as it's perceptive and not intrinsic in this case; I apologize for the timbre of my approach.

My stance is more of one rooted in individualism and self-advocation, i.e. if you're dedicated to a job that's considered a full time commitment, that's the social construct. We're not in a society post-labor, idealistic techtopia yet, and that transition if it occurs will be painful and bloated.

The reality is if you want the future of work when, how, where you want, then you have to recognize, admit and accept that your mental model of "employee/employer" relationship has to shift. You must not be the one exchanging what you are claiming to be your most precious asset - unburdened time - to the employer. There is no sense in continuing to enslave yourself to the constructs of yore. It is, ostensibly, within your control and power to become the master of your domain. Of course, this is going to look very catered to your particular requirements and value-adding skillsets.... do you have a set of diverse skills that can be leveraged into one-to-many income streams?

Why should the organization, that which agrees to give you quite a generous offer by any standard on a global measure, be responsible for ensuring the rest of your life is as you desire? You are the captain of the ship on this journey, only you are in control of the choices you make.

Truth is if your employer wanted to you be happy they would give you a full pension and send you on your way.

They want your labor, intelligence, work product, but it's all the same. They want your TIME.

Build businesses. Choose lifestyles that reduce dependency on extrinsic systemic operational uptime. Expose your raw value to the world as you decide and don't undermine your only static asset in life - time. It's incredible how variable the dollar-amount people set on their hours. . .

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#158

Post by nicbou » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

nverno wrote: post #41

fweimer wrote: post #23

> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s. Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly. Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everyt…

What are the legal repercussions if you don't use your time off to relax and restore?

You are forced to take vacations. What you do with them is beyond your employer's control.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#159

Post by lb1lf » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

flowerbreeze wrote: post #84

vondur wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR? I believe it also mentioned freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, all of which seemed to be ignored.

I think more accurate would be to say it allowed freedom from expression, freedom from religion and freedom from assembly. Unless in the service of the communist party of course.

A former colleague of mine, born and raised in the USSR, liked to quip that there was only one minor difference in the way freedom of expression was implemented in the USSR and in the West.

Both places guaranteed the freedom to express oneself, but only the West guaranteed your freedom also after you'd expressed yourself.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#160

Post by yamtaddle » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:46 PM UTC

ejb999 wrote: post #88

californical wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting idea — there could be a sabbatical accrual of sorts. One way this could realistically work today (with a lot of kicking and screaming about how it’ll ruin the economy) is each year of work earns a month of sabbatical, and once you’ve earned at least 2 months you can exercise your sabbatical rights, given some notice. Companies could cap it at 6 months at a time so you don’t completely lose trac…

>>I don’t see a reason that we couldn’t pass a law tomorrow that does this. Why do we need for a law to be passed? There are so many people seemingly in favor of this, why don't they just band together and start a company and then pay people to take 6 month vacations?

It's fairly common for a majority—even a large majority—of people to want something, but to be unable to make it happen without a law. Coordination problems are real, and they are everywhere.

And that's just at a basic game-theory level—quirks or dysfunctions of political systems can make passing a law extremely difficult, too, even given super-majority voter support.