Vacations in the Soviet Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#111

Post by ActorNightly » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

This is a very good idea for teenagers and younger adults to break them out of the online world.

For working class though, its probably best not to force people to socialize. The thing that doesn't get talked enough about in socialization is that its not all positive, and people have different tolerance to each others bullshit.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#112

Post by tsukikage » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

beepbooptheory wrote: post #65

snickerbockers wrote: post #6

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. maybe it's just because I don't have much of a social circle, but this seems appealing to me.

Agreed. So many articles and discussions these days about how everyone is so lonely and isolated. The article seems to want to imply this system is kind of a bad thing, or at least weird, but I have trouble seeing anything but good things in it.

It’s awesome when you’re single, not so appealing once you start a family.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#113

Post by izacus » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

justinpombrio wrote: post #34

fweimer wrote: post #23

> In the West, what you do when you leave the office was and is your own business. In the USSR, it was everyone else’s. Is this actually true? In Germany at least, vacation from work is not truly our own time. We are legally required to use it to relax and restore our capacity for future work. Few people probably see it that way, admittedly. Of course, there is still a huge difference, but it's awkward to view everyt…

What do you mean "legally required"? E.g. is there a law that says that specifically, or a common interpretation of a law that says something vaguer, or a common clause in employment contracts, or were you being metaphorical and it isn't actually legal? I'm from the US, and this sounds very strange to my ears.

The OP just decided to strangely translate a clause that asks for employees to not demand work during cation (the usual US "I'm still reading my emails") and that they cannot work at another job in that time.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#114

Post by The_Colonel » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

kfrzcode wrote: post #68

pierat wrote: post #49

Sigh, that's not always easy with many of the people here with "unlimited PTO" without guaranteed minimums. Most of the unlimited clauses are based on manager approval. The base HR justification for unlimited PTO is to not have to pay out unused PTO when they leave. Naturally, it sounds good on face, but leads to less PTO taken due to inherent worries of "how much is too much", lack of manager approval, and the like.…

20 + 10 = one full calendar month (that's 6 business weeks) of work. You're asking for more than six weeks per year where you can just get paid for not working. Sure, there's plenty of holistic value-add to being a well rested, happy employee, but if the difference for your happiness and well-being is somewhere above having six weeks of paid vacation (plus assumed sick days as needed for actual sicknesses) and gettin…

Honestly, your suggestion that the desire for more time off must be caused by some mental problem is pretty rude.

I also don't understand why is it such a mystery that people might want to pursue other interests than just work and that requires time off work.

Here in Europe, 20+10 is the bare minimum, with most people getting more and still striving for more.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#115

Post by waboremo » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

That's fascinating, it's both unplanned and also non-transactional. I don't think many environments like that exist past school years.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#116

Post by catiopatio » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

Folks are welcome to opt-in to those sorts of experiences, but as an absolute introvert, I can’t imagine a less pleasant vacation.

This would be the antithesis of a vacation.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#117

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #44

danielodievich wrote: post #4

Growing up in USSR, my mother would take us for a summer in some mountains/vacation destination and work there as a guide. One time in Kandalaksha gulf in White Sea near Murmansk she was a wilderness guide for a few rounds of tourists from elsewhere in Soviet Union for a 8 day hiking in mountains/sailing on the White Sea trip. We had such wide range of people - from experienced outdoors people to the elderly pensione…

There is so much amazing beauty in the world, including the largest country on the planet, Russia - and then especially areas in China, which I would LOVE to visit, but the governments of each country kinda suck, so its not a place I'll likely go (imagine mtn biking through some of the amazing landscapes of either) With that said, I'd love to hear Lex Fridman's opinion on all of this.

It's not difficult to visit China (except that you'll probably have to apply for a visa, but Chinese people have to do that to visit Western countries too).

You won't experience much about the government while there. Police aren't really that present in public. Border control is like any other country. The only issue you're likely to run into is the Great Firewall, for which you can just install a VPN before arriving in country.

Many Westerners experience a sort of shock when they first visit China, because the dystopia they're expecting to see never materializes.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#118

Post by izacus » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #62

This is great. I've been interested in understanding how the Soviet economy worked for a long time. I've found only a handful of articles like this one. Unless you're willing to delve into hardcore economic academic papers (I am not) it's hard to get an actual informed perspective. Most Googling around will basically return you the rote response that it basically didn't work. Which, despite the many issues with the S…

It's probably the language barrier - anything English is basically one-sided cold war propaganda repeated ad nauseam. Anything more detailed tends to be Russian, German or generally Eastern European since US literature tends to not care about more detailed looks into how the country worked besides repeating the same lines about food queues and other cliches.

(And that makes sense, we tend to focus on our own country and environment.)

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#119

Post by tsukikage » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #97

>"The Soviet Union's approach to paid time off (PTO) was unique, as it not only provided workers with time off but also determined how they spent it" Utter bullshit. I was able to travel to every part of USSR (except of course restricted areas and abroad) during my vacation time without any problems. USSR had gobbles of big problems and general lack of freedom but vacations were not part. As a matter of fact I spent…

The article focuses on early/mid century, less on the 80s/90s. It doesn’t mention dacha villages either.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#120

Post by sidewndr46 » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

0xDEF wrote: post #64

vondur wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR? I believe it also mentioned freedom of expression, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, all of which seemed to be ignored.

>Did the Soviet government actually follow the Constitution of The USSR The Soviet Union did allow some internal dissent and freedom of speech from 1985 to 1991. That might have accelerated its downfall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasnost

I seem to remember a similar thing happening under Mao for a brief period of time, followed by a near total crackdown on anyone who had decided to speak up.