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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#992

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because manufacturers sell whatever profit seeking, cost-cutting measures best fatten shareholder dividends. You are exactly right.

you understand people still have to buy things for companies to make them right?

You understand companies have to make things for people to buy them right?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think jail time for making software too bloated and slow for your liking is a serious proposal.

"too bloated and slow for your liking" I neither said nor implied this. To be clear, the products in question were sold under false presences, as they were sold with features that—as far as the lay consumer is concerned—don't exist (just because I'm a technical person and I know they are almost certainly software bugs and or are not designed as per specifications is immaterial). In essence, by deliberately selling a…

You'd just get a lot less software as people instituted enough checks to make progress glacial. Not everything needs to be developed like it is a medical device or aerospace software.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#994
post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "more advanced"? Besides perhaps MobilEye's SuperVision there is no ADAS as advanced in terms of what it can do, if you believe otherwise you need a reality check. Reliability? Sure, Mercedes has their famed L3 in stop and go traffic, in good weather, if the road doesn't curve too much. FSD, if you use it, takes over your driving 99% of the time, which is why I'm saying tactile buttons or not is just not that…

There are at least a few reviews that put Tesla's stuff behind GM's SuperCruise and a few other driver assist systems.

Here's the thing about reviews and the media: anything negative about Tesla gets clicks, that's why every single accident involving a Tesla makes headlines. Another factor is that most auto companies pay for advertising in the media while Tesla so far has not, biasing reviews and coverage in favor of the companies that are paying the bills.

But that may sound too conspiratorial for you, but how about just observing the current state of FSD, here's the first video of you search YouTube: https://youtu.be/JhmlKKVOWfI

Many times when I've had these discussions with people it boils down to misunderstandings of what Autopilot is vs FSD, or just impressions based on the tech 3 years ago. FSD is far from L4 but it's in a very advanced state compared to other ADAS systems.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about GP - but in my country they teach the 9 and 3 position when you take your license. I’ve always thought 10 and 2 was an American thing.

When I was in driver's ed in high school in America, there was a push to teach 8 and 4. As far as I am aware, teaching students 10 and 2 has long since been phased out supposedly due to the increase of arm injuries in the event of an accident. 9 and 3 wasn't recommended to us because if your air bag deploys, your right arm will smash into your passenger or the passenger air bag. 8 and 4 is supposed to be safer but it…

9 & 3 is the best for control, but you're right, it's worse in case the airbag deploys. 10 & 2, I imagine, is even worse, since you always have an arm in front of the airbag in that case, so your arm might be propelled into your face if it goes off. 8 & 4 helps, but seems pretty bad for control, but on highway trips it's more relaxing I think.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#996
I just want to emphasize two words: trust and freedom.

TRUST:

The primary reason why some solutions proposed by other comments around how we can use smart knobs, touchscreens with protrusions don't work is that we TRUST the physical buttons most. If you feel it registers, you know it surely registers. You can reach your finger towards the panel without thinking beforehand whether to increase or decrease the volume without fearing accidentally triggering other functions. In words of the WWDC 2018 presentation "Designing fluid interfaces", the thought happens WITH the motion. Why do people still use physical camera blockers when there are already plenty of software solutions available? Trust.

Smart knob-like implementations would not solve the problem. For really important stuff like the volume controls/mute button, we really need something that we users can always trust. The ideal implementation is probably only using them to control variables currently showing on the screen(like the touchbar!)

I read an article before about choosing keyboard to maximize typing speed. It mentioned that the more confidence you have with the keys the better. The experience of typing with unreliable and low-feedback butterfly keys on a VPS over the globe with 300ms roundtrip latency is beyond hell.

I have always hated automatic forced updates, even when they do not cause any performance or stability issues. With physical buttons, you know it is here to stay and can never change. However even we manage to make users able to navigate the touchscreen without looking or just with peripheral vision, who knows when it would change drastically tomorrow when it updates itself in the night? The crux is that with touchscreens, car makers would treat them, and the car, as a massive mobile device, but we users actually expect them to be like computers, or single-purpose servers.

FREEDOM:

The actual implementation is much much more important than the idea itself. The problem is simply too much freedom for the developer. JS and CSS animations/transitions, when used properly, can make the experience smooth while not being dizzy and annoying. But observe the current fiasco of "BEAUTIFUL" and "MODERN" web "DESIGN"s. The thing is, the limit of how bad incorrect executions can be, is probably more important the limit of how good it can be when correctly executed. We can have the fastest processors, screen with the fastest response time, and still some UI "designer" can make it feel slower than the Windows 95 on Intel Pentium, remotely controlled over the continent.

(Please excuse my poor english and bad writing skills.)

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#997

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you understand people still have to buy things for companies to make them right?

You understand companies have to make things for people to buy them right?

are you actually proposing supply side economics right now?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#998

Any controls that's not on the steering wheel is a distraction. If there are very few buttons or dials for very simple/standard/common functions on the centre dash, that's okay. Anything more is definitely not safe to operate in a busy and fast moving traffic situations. All the touch-screen stuff is only safe to operate in very slow-moving traffic jam situations.

I'd disagree in the case of well engineered iDrive / MMI style controllers. I can operate a lot of the iDrive without looking, and certain controls (radio presets etc) show on the high mounted screen which button you're hovering over so you dont need to look at the button itself.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe what GP meant is the feedback they offer. Do you think the Magic Trackpad moves? Hint it doesn’t, the “click” you feel is a haptic feedback motor.

yes, that's what I was trying to say, thank you. there is no reason that a light touch couldn't produce haptic feedback as you move your finger around, so you can feel where buttons are, and when you find the button you want you simply remove your finger and tap again. not immediately intuitive, no, but not difficult to learn. as usual, a tap on a button at any time would simply press the button. i'm a bit sad that e…

> i'm a bit sad that experimentation isn't being done, here.

Oh, it is! Just nothing of substance has made it into mass market shipping that I’ve seen.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#1000

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

Most of the time, the unresponsiveness is due to the touchscreen itself not the software. They usually use inexpensive touchscreens. It's expensive to use something like the iPhone's touchscreen on large screens in cars.
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