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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#681

Post by meiuqer »

bjarneh wrote: post #417
checkyoursudo wrote: post #393

With. A. Passion. Other touch screens (or similar things) I dislike: - the controls on my stove top - the controls on my monitor - the controls on my tv - the controls on my thermostat - probably more All of these should have physical buttons for the limited number of functions required. Or, at a minimum, for navigation and confirmation. Touch screens there suck. My wife's car has a touch screen on the control/infota…

> - the controls on my stove top How were these stove-top touch-buttons ever considered an upgrade to their predecessor? They always have no feedback, or that annoyingly high "beep" feedback. They are always slow to respond. They typically use only two or three buttons to control the actual temperature, forcing you to select location first, which is typically slow and terrible as well. Nobody in their right mind can…

I literally just came from Ikea for a new kitchen and asked for this feature on my stove haha. Luckily they said i could choose my own stove so i will think i will do that

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#682

Post by NiloCK »

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #201
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

I disagree. With a physical button, you know you pushed it because you feel it give and then stop giving. After the first couple of uses you can get used to any response time. With a touchscreen, there is no tactile feedback difference between a button press and a miss. So when you press it and it doesn't do anything, or behaves unexpectedly, you don't know if it is lagging or you missed. Touchscreens are much worse…

When slow response times are because of software, they not only slow but variable.

If you're accustomed to 90ms delay and the adjustment doesn't come in 250ms, then it pulls your attention, and even your eyes. "What's wrong with my volume knob" shouldn't occur to someone driving a vehicle.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#683

Post by rdez6173 »

tekla wrote: post #206
sizzle wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers or cost optimizing MBAs? What developer would advocate for slower touchscreen response time at the expense of having a good UX if money was of no issue?

Developers. Engineers seemed to have no issue with making interfaces and systems that work in cars before the touchscreen fad.

Nope. Greed.

It costs way more to build out physical ergonomic interior controls when they are permanent fixtures for several model years and any changes require new physical elements to be created and fit (and designed for mass production).

Software can be updated over the air, so there's less pressure on engineers to get it perfect.

The solution is not to point fingers and guess, but instead measure and revise. Study the amount of time drivers' eyes are off the road for routine tasks, develop acceptable limits and enforce them.

Software engineers of any ilk are just as capable of following sensible guidelines if everyone else in the company is obliged to as well.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#684

Post by chillbill »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

I think it’s ridiculous that this of all things is what has riled you up this much.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#685

Post by naikrovek »

jsjohnst wrote: post #226
amluto wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain? Mac trackpads can be delightful, but they’re delightful when the user is looking at the screen. Which is a bad idea when driving.

I believe what GP meant is the feedback they offer. Do you think the Magic Trackpad moves? Hint it doesn’t, the “click” you feel is a haptic feedback motor.

yes, that's what I was trying to say, thank you.

there is no reason that a light touch couldn't produce haptic feedback as you move your finger around, so you can feel where buttons are, and when you find the button you want you simply remove your finger and tap again. not immediately intuitive, no, but not difficult to learn. as usual, a tap on a button at any time would simply press the button.

i'm a bit sad that experimentation isn't being done, here. I feel like there's a lot of unexplored stuff with regards to touch screens with haptic feedback.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#686

Post by KyeRussell »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

Your constant blaming of bad engineers is s clear invitation to point out that you’re incredibly incredibly naive to think that software people are sitting unencumbered by wider business realities and are just deciding to do a Bad Job.

You are no better.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#687

Post by londons_explore »

itsoktocry wrote: post #648
the_overseer wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The infotainment code is rewritten every time. By different devs. Because that is how automotive industry works. This time BMW wants infotainment and a third party wins the contract (because it's the cheapest usually). For the next BMW car another company wins the contract. Everything is rebuilt from scratch. The components that make up the infotainment a lot of times are actually developed by different companie…

> Most of them are mechanical engineers not software people Ah yes, the trillion dollar industry (that's been writing software in many forms for decades) just doesn't have people that understand software. Meanwhile, you have the "software" people at, say, Tesla, who has the worst driving interface of all and the iPads were melting out of the dash in the summer time. But at least the latency was low!

Of those two, I would far prefer to use a Tesla UI than any of the other 'infotainment' systems...

Slightly yellowing screen I can deal with. Lag on every button press, and random crashes I cannot.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#688

Post by dsfyu404ed »

DonHopkins wrote: post #475
mr_november wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely unnecessary and upsetting quote. If you must, just link it with some background instead of quoting a sensationalized headline.

You're really more upset at him for quoting a doctor who accidentally killed his own kid then fought to make backup cameras mandatory, than at the auto industry and regulators who fought against backup cameras for 15 years? Just whose sensitive feelings are you trying to protect with such censorship, and why? Did reading that upsetting quote ruin your day as much as backing over and killing your own kid would? Some t…

Yes. I am. That guy (and everyone else involved) probably has ten times blood on his hands as a result of "wE doN't need TO CarE aBOUT REaR vIsIBILITY BeCaUsE we have a BACKup CaMERa" engineering and touch screen distractions than he's saved by getting backup cameras put in things.

Backup cameras are the unholy trinity of upper middle class moral panic and shirking of responsibility, government Doing Something (TM) and people's inability to accept small but concentrated bad things versus large diffuse and hard to measure bad things.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#689

Post by garbagewoman »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #615
Archelaos wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's legal to fiddle with a damn computer screen, because it's part of the car. In Germany it is only legal to operate a touch screen while driving for essential functions with only a brief glance. For example, a judgement was handed down against a Tesla driver who tried to switch up the interval of the windscreen wiper via touchscreen and ran off the road in the process. Source: https://www.burhoff.de/asp_weit…

The judgement should have been against tesla, not the customer. Wipers are essential and should not require fiddling

50:50 maybe? The customer, upon realising how shitty the car is, should have returned it as not fit for purpose

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#690

Post by naikrovek »

nemo44x wrote: post #245
naikrovek wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the apple Macbook trackpad proves that this tactile feedback could be done for touch screens also. touchscreens are worse but they don't have to be. manufacturers just don't care enough to make them better. they're too busy charging more for touchscreens while saving tons of money on buttons, which are expensive in comparison.

Touchscreens are 2d surfaces. I need my fingers to grip a thing in a static place in many cases.

That's fine. Buttons are good and well-understood.

I suspect that for myself, a fixed knob or set of fixed physical buttons is not the only interface that I could use without looking.

I'd like to see more experimentation, here. I feel like there's unexplored territory.

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