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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#901

Post by quadrifoliate »

kleiba wrote: post #681
apnew wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also _rent_. I hate food cooked on electric stoves, so when I was looking to rent, anything that dint have gas stove was automatic non-starter for me. This whole argument that “you oppose a forced choice so you must hate poor people” is just a straw-man. Just because you prefer things one way doesn’t mean govt has a business telling me how I should cook my food.

This is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

> many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat.

Yeah, but not many more relevant ones to the actual cooking.

> I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

You can't do a blind cooking. How often do you cook food on the stove yourself? If you do cook quite often and still insist that gas and electric stoves are equivalent, I'd be very surprised.

Now I definitely don't want to say that I definitely can't do without gas stoves — if they have a negative health and environmental impact, I could be easily convinced to switch to induction stoves, for example. But electric really don't cut it in my experience.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#902

Post by Tiktaalik »

someonehere wrote: post #22

Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?

yes a BBQ does sound like a perfectly good (and fun) solution to this minor hypothetical problem.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#903

Post by uwagar »

rpastuszak wrote: post #713
uwagar wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i like to roast my aubergine for babaganoush on an open flame. try that on an induction cooker and let me know?

Staying away from the flame war (pun intended), but regarding baba ganoush: you might get better results with an electric oven (grill/broiler) and a cheap gas torch.

this sounds like a good possibility. could you ball park some timings for each? thanks.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#904

Post by rayiner »

fsckboy wrote: post #889
tptacek wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Oak Park, IL for over a decade, shopping for houses several times, and have never seen an electric stove. What's your point? What's clearly the case is that homes in China do not generally have the ultra-powered gas wok burners that restaurants do, which is what people are talking about when they talk about what's distinctive about cooking on a wok.

woks are round (hemispherical) on the bottom, gas is better for heating that shape

[flagged]

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#905

Post by rlg2161 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #696
rlg2161 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the average American, 4 devices in their home - water heaters, furnaces, stoves and gas powered clothes driers - account 95% of residential emissions [1]. Residential energy use accounts for ~20% of US annual carbon emissions [2]. The 2nd figure accounts for carbon footprint of electricity generation used in the home as well as gas combusted in the home. The 4th chart from [1] suggests this is about a 50/50 split…

I find a flaw with your argument. The question is not "are the major gas appliances the primary drivers for household emissions". That seems true and obvious. It is "does replacing them with electrical versions lower total emissions"? Meanwhile, you seem to be using different definitions of household emissions. Your first source about 95% seems to be talking about direct emissions, ignoring the impact of electricity…

Paragraph 2 of my response:

> The 2nd figure accounts for carbon footprint of electricity generation used in the home as well as gas combusted in the home. The 4th chart from [1] suggests this is about a 50/50 split (if we bring grid emissions to 0 but don’t exchange these natural gas devices, carbon intensity remains at half of what it is today). Therefore, we can conclude that these 4 appliances in residential properties account for 10% of US carbon footprint.

To your first question - the answer is yes; replacing gas appliances with modern electric appliances is less carbon intensive, even if the electricity is produced by fossil fuel combustion. This will become increasingly true as the grid gets greener over time and the carbon intensity of electricity production continues to drop

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#906

Post by keneda7 »

azemetre wrote: post #833
keneda7 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this very shocking NY allows that. I'm in CA and I've never seen a gas stove that didn't have a fume hood. In fact a lot of electric stoves here have fume hoods. I would assume we have a regulation about it here but I've never looked it up.

That's odd, I mean my apartment has a "vent hood" but it just feeds into a sponge into a wall with no ventilation leading outside. These are the types of hoods I've only seen in my life, only in professional kitchens have I seen true ventilation and even then some kitchens are moving to induction sense it's a much safer work environment and speeds up cooking but even then you still need ventilation.

I went ahead and looked it up. It seems like it is required in CA. It also seems NY is similar but also allows ductless. I didn't read up on it that much though.

https://www.prolinerangehoods.com/blog/is-a-range-hood-requi....

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#907

Post by IIAOPSW »

engineer_22 wrote: post #890
IIAOPSW wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Metro Statistical Area of the city is 25 million, which differs quite drastically from the de jure municipal and state borders.

NY government doesn't govern across state borders?

What part of "Empire State" did we not make clear.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#908

Post by justeleblanc »

baggy_trough wrote: post #869
justeleblanc wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I get angry when selfish people refuse to do anything to lower their emissions and impact me and my family.

If you think banning gas stoves will have any climate effect on your family, you are mistaken.

Sure. Continue to pollute.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#909

Post by soupbowl »

pipodeclown wrote: post #475
jnwatson wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy the climate argument. However, banning gas appliances comes from the same place as banning lead paint. Gas appliances are a major source of indoor pollution. Gas heating leaks pollution inside the home, especially as furnaces age. Plus, many residents don’t own their own property. This helps protect renters.

What does that even mean? Did you not get the whole, burning hydrocarbons is bad for the climate memo? We have to stop all net carbon emmissions in the next fifteen years or were screwed (propably already are) and twats like you keep going online spouting your 'i don't buy the climate argument' bullshit. We're literally talking about burning hydrocarbons to heat stuff, how the hell can you say that you don't buy the…

Oh no, we are all going to die.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#910

Post by scoofy »

user3939382 wrote: post #876
danny_codes wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induction stoves are cheaper, more energy efficient, safer, and better for your health. There aren't any advantages to gas at all. The gas industry has, however, put many billions into lobbying and marketing to convince you otherwise. And it seems they have succeeded. For your education https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54

> There aren't any advantages to gas at all That's false. Gas means you can instantly adjust the heat level. Electric is nice if you don't actually cook or don't know how. You don't find electric in any restaurant ever and there's a reason for that. Again, the people pushing this legislation 100% do not have electric ranges in their house. This is performative politics that has nothing to do with actually caring abou…

Basically everything you just stated is out of date. You're thinking of old, incandescent electric stoves, which are indeed garbage.

You can heat faster and also adjust heat faster with induction than with gas. Many restaurants are moving to induction. People pushing for this legislation have induction ranges in their house... in fact, most serious people with concerns about air quality have already switched.

The reason why this topic as so controversial is that the vast majority of people don't understand how powerful modern induction ranges are. It's effectively as great a change as geothermal heat pumps will be in our lifetime. They are a total win on every aspect except aesthetics.

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