Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 1001 posts

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#531

Post by crooked-v »

danans wrote: post #96
someonehere wrote: post #22

Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?

> When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ? How about a little butane stove? They work great at hotel omelette bars! Or a Coleman stove? It's not that big a deal to cook when the power is out, really.

Or just a tinfoil tray, a wire rack, and some candles. You're not going to really cook that way, but it should be more than enough to heat up some canned food or ramen or whatever.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#532

Post by MrFoof »

azemetre wrote: post #447
iamdamian wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this regulation targets everyone in the state of New York, not just renters, and the research I've read seems to indicate that fume hoods protect against this indoor pollution.

I have never seen an actual fume hood in any residential home in my life (close to 800 homes across the South and New England. I have seen plenty of faux hoods that do absolutely nothing. Maybe it's something they only add in luxury homes.

Live in New England. Home I grew up in (built in the late 70s) had one. All but one apartment I've lived in had one -- including this one, which was built in the late 1920s.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#533

Post by keneda7 »

azemetre wrote: post #447
iamdamian wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this regulation targets everyone in the state of New York, not just renters, and the research I've read seems to indicate that fume hoods protect against this indoor pollution.

I have never seen an actual fume hood in any residential home in my life (close to 800 homes across the South and New England. I have seen plenty of faux hoods that do absolutely nothing. Maybe it's something they only add in luxury homes.

I find this very shocking NY allows that. I'm in CA and I've never seen a gas stove that didn't have a fume hood. In fact a lot of electric stoves here have fume hoods. I would assume we have a regulation about it here but I've never looked it up.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#534

Post by iamdamian »

azemetre wrote: post #514
iamdamian wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are common in New York and may even be required by residential building code: https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/irc-2018/chapter/15/exhaust... (Note: I'm a New Yorker but not an expert in building code.)

ah that makes more sense, like those 15+ story buildings? I should have clarified my comment was in regards to SFH or triple deckers. I would honestly think it would be easier to implement in SFH but I'm guessing it's mostly due to developers cutting costs and that there is no regulation to actually make a viable one.

I'm not sure, but yes I could imagine the larger buildings being targeted by more regulations.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#535

Post by ineedasername »

engineer_22 wrote: post #463
ahoy wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talkin…

[flagged]

>If you're unhappy, make different choices.

This sentiment is often on display here and alway out of touch with reality. Plenty of people will never have the right opportunities, no matter their effort, to make any choice they want to put themselves in any social/wealth class of their choice.

This sentiment is the modern equivalent of "let them eat cake".

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#536

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

amalcon wrote: post #377
jablongo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold. Not true, heat pumps are widely used as primary heat sources in environments as cold or colder than NY, like in Montreal and other parts of Canada. The take that heat pump tech only works in very moderate temperatures is stale at this point.

Usually that works one of two ways: 1. Ground source heat pump -- which can work pretty much anywhere people live, but costs a lot more and people don't necessarily know about them. 2. Failover to resistive heating when it gets too cold outside. It's fine to do this in Montreal, because electricity is relatively inexpensive there. It's fine to do this in New York City, or even somewhere a little cooler like Boston, b…

3. an actual modern air-source heat pump, that still has a COP of close to 2.0 at 5F (as listed here: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#537

Post by rlg2161 »

iamdamian wrote: post #455
rlg2161 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the average American, 4 devices in their home - water heaters, furnaces, stoves and gas powered clothes driers - account 95% of residential emissions [1]. Residential energy use accounts for ~20% of US annual carbon emissions [2]. The 2nd figure accounts for carbon footprint of electricity generation used in the home as well as gas combusted in the home. The 4th chart from [1] suggests this is about a 50/50 split…

I appreciate you digging up this information, this is exactly what's been lacking in press coverage of the issue. If you're telling me that fully eliminating gas stoves in the U.S. (something that will not happen in our lifetimes and will come at great political and personal cost) is going to reduce U.S.-specific emissions by just 1%, I think I'm even more convinced that this regulation should not have been passed. W…

> something that will not happen in our lifetimes

Not sure where you’re coming up with this - the average modern gas stove is expected to last 13-15 years [1]. Obviously there are exceptions but we can expect 95%+ of this infra to be replaced in 20 years just due to equipment failure. Seems reasonable to expect that effectively all gas stoves in the US will be replaced at least once in the next 50 years.

> great political and personal cost

This assumes that installing new gas infra has no cost. It also ignores the long term health impacts (and costs) of burning natural gas indoors. Additionally, IRA subsidies partially cover the cost of stove replacement in the US. Upfront cost may be higher with induction today, but lifetime cost is lower due to the lower cost of electricity.

This frame also ignores the climate impacts, which I would argue have both significantly greater political and economic costs than not allowing gas infra in new buildings.

> What am I missing?

I agree that it is not viable to say “we must replace all gas infra today.” However, by allowing it to be built in new buildings, we’re locking ourselves into at least 15 years of additional CO2 production from this hardware at a time when we need to be reducing CO2 emissions as much as possible. CO2 not produced today is CO2 that we won’t have to draw down from the atmosphere in the future - something that also costs money. Not installing infra that produces CO2 is the easiest way to ensure we stop producing CO2

Beyond that - I’m not quite sure what your argument is. Is it just that 1% is too small to make a difference (or be regulated) - I’d ask you what is the cutoff at which it is viable for you? And what is the strategy for addressing emissions that don’t meet your cutoff?

[1] https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/lifestyle/how-long-do-app...

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#539

Post by devmunchies »

youngNed wrote: post #241
devmunchies wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? I tried this and a neighbor called CalFire on me since its illegal when its not a "burn day". It seems the solutions are to have: - a 5 gallon propane tank in the garage - a BBQ in the back yard - your own batteries - a generator (also useful for refrigeration) I have about 20 gallons of gas in my garage that is good for my generator. I u…

> I tried this and a neighbor called CalFire > I have about 20 gallons of gas in my garage I'm with your neighbor on this one

The fire pit is like 40 yards from the garage. Plus most people have 20+ gallons of gas in their garage... in their car.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#540

Post by [deleted] »

parineum wrote: post #460
ahoy wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I _rent_ a home, as do a full half of new york state residents. I'd love an electric stove. Every rental I've ever lived in has a gas stove and no fume hood. The full half of new yorkers who rent - almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach, I wonder if you've ever been poor? Have you ever lived here? Do you know what youre talkin…

> almost 20 million people - mostly get whatever theirlandlord picked. So when I read posts like this, decrying government overreach... What's the purpose of an outright ban then? Why not just ban it from rental properties? > I wonder if you've ever been poor? What do you think the median income for home ownsership is? I'm sure you make plenty of money more than most homeowners if you're renting in New York.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN